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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:51 am 
Sanci
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Traditionally it is pronounced /krApi/ however /kr{pi/ is a common pronunciation nowadays due to spelling pronunciation and influence of the word "crap".


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:58 pm 
Sanno
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Fooge wrote:
Traditionally it is pronounced /krApi/

[citation needed]

I've never heard any other pronunciation of crappie except the one with /æ/--and it's a pretty common thing to fish for in the Upper Midwest.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:38 pm 
Sumerul
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linguoboy wrote:
Fooge wrote:
Traditionally it is pronounced /krApi/

[citation needed]

I've never heard any other pronunciation of crappie except the one with /æ/--and it's a pretty common thing to fish for in the Upper Midwest.

Same thought here.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:40 pm 
Avisaru
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linguoboy wrote:
Fooge wrote:
Traditionally it is pronounced /krApi/

[citation needed]

I also wonder about that, but it does seem to be the most common pronunciation given in dictionaries.

I've never used the word much, but I thought of it as having /æ/.

It seems to come from French "crapet", used by Canadian speakers. Based on the spelling, I wouldn't expect this to have /ɑ/ in any variety of French, but apparently 'cropet' exists or existed as a dialectal variant in some regions, so I'm not totally sure if the English pronunciation might be based in some way on a variant French form with some kind of back vowel in the first syllable. The OED says the English word has been spelled with "o", although that could well just be a pronunciation-spelling based on an English pronunciation with /ɑ/ that was based on a French pronunciation with /a/.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:11 pm 
Sanci
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linguoboy wrote:
Fooge wrote:
Traditionally it is pronounced /krApi/

[citation needed]

I've never heard any other pronunciation of crappie except the one with /æ/--and it's a pretty common thing to fish for in the Upper Midwest.


All dictionaries I've looked in give /krɑpi/ as the pronunciation of "crappie". I've never seen a dictionary that listed /kræpi/ even as an alternative pronunciation.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crappie

I myself pronounce it /kræpi/.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:23 am 
Sanno
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Fooge wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Fooge wrote:
Traditionally it is pronounced /krApi/
[citation needed]

I've never heard any other pronunciation of crappie except the one with /æ/--and it's a pretty common thing to fish for in the Upper Midwest.
All dictionaries I've looked in give /krɑpi/ as the pronunciation of "crappie". I've never seen a dictionary that listed /kræpi/ even as an alternative pronunciation.

Maybe you need to look in more dictionaries?
OED wrote:
Pronunciation: Brit. /ˈkrapi/, U.S. /ˈkrɑpi/, /ˈkræpi/
(Note that BE /a/ is the phonemic correlate of AE /æ/.)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:25 am 
Sanci
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How do you pronounce Sbarro the pizza place? I've heard / s@bAroU/ and /spAroU/.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:40 am 
Sanno
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I think I vary between [ʹzbaro] and [ʹz̥b̥aːɾoʊ] depending on who I'm talking to. It's such an unabashedly Italian name that I aim for something close to the Italian pronunciation but I don't always nail it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:35 pm 
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I've generally heard it /ɛsˈbɑɹoː/ from most Americans, but I suppose my pronunciation would be similar linguoboy's if I were called upon to pronounce it. (I'm a bit of a foodie, so it's not where I'd choose to get my pizza. :p )

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:26 pm 
Sanno
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Zaarin wrote:
I've generally heard it /ɛsˈbɑɹoː/ from most Americans, but I suppose my pronunciation would be similar linguoboy's if I were called upon to pronounce it. (I'm a bit of a foodie, so it's not where I'd choose to get my pizza. :p )

For a while, we had one in the food court next door, so it was convenient for a quick bite. Now the campus catering company makes its own, which is slightly worse. Unfortunately, it's a long hike downtown for anything resembling a foodie option.

So while we're on an Italian food kick:
zabaglione
dulce de leche
mostaccioli
paste e fagioli


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:35 pm 
Smeric
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Dulce de leche?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:03 am 
Sanno
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linguoboy wrote:
dulce de leche


I used to pronounce this as though it were Italian - though only a couple of times, since it usen't to be common here. I've since made the correction.

Your other words are too rare for me to honestly have a fixed pronunciation (I don't think I've ever encountered them, in fact), other than trying to follow italian pronunciation rules so far as I'm aware of them.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:33 am 
Smeric
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Salmoneus wrote:
Your other words are too rare for me to honestly have a fixed pronunciation (I don't think I've ever encountered them, in fact), other than trying to follow italian pronunciation rules so far as I'm aware of them.

Pretty much the same for me. I would pronounce zabaglione, mostaccioli, and paste e fagioli as if they were just Italian words and dulce de leche as in Spanish.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:35 am 
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Vijay wrote:
Dulce de leche?

As Sal points out, a surprising number of people mistake this for Italian and pronounce it with /ʧ/.

Mostaccioli is a staple at weddings in St Louis (at least within a certain social stratum), but the local pronunciation is with /ˈməsk/ rather than /ˈmɔst/. It wouldn't have occurred to me this was unusual if a(n Italian-American) classmate of mind hadn't peeved about it.

Pasta e fagioli is pretty commonplace in areas with large Italian-American communities (like Chicago). But because so many of the original immigrants were Neapolitian or Sicilian, the pronunciation /ˌpɑstəfəˈzuːl/ is more widespread, at least among the older generation. I picked up this pronunciation from my ex, who grew up in SoCal.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:02 am 
Smeric
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I pronounce dulce de leche "caramel," because I'm so confused and haven't even the vaguest clue what language it is or how it should be pronounced. :p

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:49 am 
Avisaru
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Interestingly enough, while I mostly pronounce it the Spanish way, I think I pronounce the first vowel in leche as /ɛ/, at least in context of that phrase. That's weird--I know perfectly well it's supposed to be /e/, and I learned about the food from Spanish speakers.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:14 pm 
Lebom
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linguoboy wrote:
Vijay wrote:
Dulce de leche?

As Sal points out, a surprising number of people mistake this for Italian and pronounce it with /ʧ/.

Mostaccioli is a staple at weddings in St Louis (at least within a certain social stratum), but the local pronunciation is with /ˈməsk/ rather than /ˈmɔst/. It wouldn't have occurred to me this was unusual if a(n Italian-American) classmate of mind hadn't peeved about it.

Pasta e fagioli is pretty commonplace in areas with large Italian-American communities (like Chicago). But because so many of the original immigrants were Neapolitan or Sicilian, the pronunciation /ˌpɑstəfəˈzuːl/ is more widespread, at least among the older generation. I picked up this pronunciation from my ex, who grew up in SoCal.

Emphasis added.

Hmm? It'd be /le.ke/ in Italian because <ch> is always /k/, while the <c> in words such as ciao is always /ʧ/. Another example is Chievo /ki.e.vo/.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:43 pm 
Avisaru
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yangfiretiger121 wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Vijay wrote:
Dulce de leche?

As Sal points out, a surprising number of people mistake this for Italian and pronounce it with /ʧ/

Hmm? It'd be /le.ke/ in Italian because <ch> is always /k/, while the <c> in words such as ciao is always /ʧ/. Another example is Chievo /ki.e.vo/.

He's talking about the <c> in dulce, which in fact looks to me more Italian than Spanish. Maybe some Duce has some impact on it?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:47 pm 
Sanno
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yangfiretiger121 wrote:
Hmm? It'd be /le.ke/ in Italian because <ch> is always /k/, while the <c> in words such as ciao is always /ʧ/. Another example is Chievo /ki.e.vo/.

The average English-speaker doesn't know those rules.

The Italian-American entertainer Dominic Amici respelled his surname "Ameche" in order to get USAmericans to pronounce it correctly.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:12 pm 
Sumerul
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I didn't know people (read: Americans) pronounced dulce de leche as something other than /ˈdulseɪ deɪ ˈleɪtʃeɪ/ or /ˈdʌlseɪ deɪ ˈleɪtʃeɪ/

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:54 pm 
Smeric
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Zaarin wrote:
I pronounce dulce de leche "caramel," because I'm so confused and haven't even the vaguest clue what language it is or how it should be pronounced. :p

I would pronounce it [ˈd̪ulse ðe ˈlet͡ʃe] (or maybe [ˈd̪ulse d̪e ˈlet͡ʃe]).

If my parents mangled the pronunciation atrociously and often enough, I would probably transcribe it for them in Malayalam script as ദുത്സെ ദെ ലേച്ചെ -> [d̪ulˈse d̪e ˈleːt͡ʃe], or maybe ദൂത്സെ ദെ ലേച്ചെ -> [ˈd̪uːlse d̪e ˈleːt͡ʃe], or maybe even ദൂത്സെതെ ലേച്ചെ -> [ˈd̪uːlse ðe ˈleːt͡ʃe](?). I have a sneaking suspicion that Spanish may be easier than Hindi for most Indians to pronounce accurately.


Last edited by Vijay on Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:41 pm 
Lebom
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ˈd̪ʲɛ.gɔ kɾuˑl̪ wrote:
yangfiretiger121 wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Vijay wrote:
Dulce de leche?

As Sal points out, a surprising number of people mistake this for Italian and pronounce it with /ʧ/

Hmm? It'd be /le.ke/ in Italian because <ch> is always /k/, while the <c> in words such as ciao is always /ʧ/. Another example is Chievo /ki.e.vo/.

He's talking about the <c> in dulce, which in fact looks to be more Italian than Spanish. Maybe some Duce has some impact on it?

Point taken. I should have realized that because I pronounced it correctly the first time I saw it. Of course, I'm a native English speaker so <ch> and /ʧ/ are more-or-less equivalent. Odds are, my native tongue overruled the one I was trying to help pronounce there. My original correction brought up Lecce, which is <cc> and /let.ʧe/. Italian is such fun.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:11 am 
Lebom
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alynnidalar wrote:
Interestingly enough, while I mostly pronounce it the Spanish way, I think I pronounce the first vowel in leche as /ɛ/, at least in context of that phrase. That's weird--I know perfectly well it's supposed to be /e/, and I learned about the food from Spanish speakers.

Meh, Spanish doesn't distinguish between /ɛ/ and /e/ anyway. And a diphthongal [eɪ] would be more foreign to Spanish than an [ɛ].

On second thought, if your DRESS vowel is closer to [ɐ] on account of your NCVS, this might sound weird.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:39 pm 
Sumerul
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Ryusenshi wrote:
alynnidalar wrote:
Interestingly enough, while I mostly pronounce it the Spanish way, I think I pronounce the first vowel in leche as /ɛ/, at least in context of that phrase. That's weird--I know perfectly well it's supposed to be /e/, and I learned about the food from Spanish speakers.

Meh, Spanish doesn't distinguish between /ɛ/ and /e/ anyway. And a diphthongal [eɪ] would be more foreign to Spanish than an [ɛ].

On second thought, if your DRESS vowel is closer to [ɐ] on account of your NCVS, this might sound weird.

I was just referring to the standard sort of transcription for NAE phonemes; standard /eɪ/ is the monophthong [e] for me.

That said, I do vary between /eɪ/ and /ɛ/, i.e. [e] and [ɜ], when saying Spanish words.

About dentals versus alveolar consonants, if I don't consciously try to do so, I use alveolar consonants when speaking Spanish words in English, even though I personally have interdental fricatives and dental stops that are allophones of each other.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:17 pm 
Sanci
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Zaarin wrote:
I've generally heard it /ɛsˈbɑɹoː/ from most Americans, but I suppose my pronunciation would be similar linguoboy's if I were called upon to pronounce it. (I'm a bit of a foodie, so it's not where I'd choose to get my pizza. :p )


/ɛsˈbɑɹoː/ "ess barro"? That's interesting. I can't remember ever hearing anyone saying Sbarro like that and outside of context I might not even understand what they are referring to. I typically hear either /səbɑɹoː/ or /spɑɹoː/ or maybe even /zbɑɹoː/.


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