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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:33 pm 
Sanci
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Mr. Z wrote:
Umega, Drydic Guy, please don't turn this thread into a flaming war.


so what's the next word we have to pronounce,

anyways just apologizing for all the childish shit i ever did

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:07 pm 
Avisaru
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Okay then, how do you pronounce "home"? (Both the place where one lives, and as in homing missile)

I [hoʊm] in on my [hɔʟm].

(I'm not entirely sure what vowel is in the second, but it's not the same as the first. I think it's somewhere in between [o] and [ɔ]...)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:10 pm 
Sumerul
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you do what now? i will need to see proof of [ʟ]. it's different from [ɫ] without alveolar contact.

also why on earth do you think you pronounce the two differently? :|


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:12 pm 
Sumerul
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home (verb): [ˈho(ː)m]
home (noun): [ˈho(ː)m] or sometimes, particularly when less stressed in informal speech, [ˈo(ː)m]

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Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:43 pm 
Sumerul
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edit: How about 'because'? I've heard both /ʌ/ and /ɔ/ there.

finlay wrote:
you do what now? i will need to see proof of [ʟ]. it's different from [ɫ] without alveolar contact.

I'm guessing he's referring to that weird intrusive-l thing that occasionally appears in words like 'both'. I think it only appears after /o/, though, so maybe it's just a split: historical /o/ usually becomes /əu̯/, but occasionally becomes something like /oˤ/.

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nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:55 pm 
Smeric
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I hadn't known about that intrusive L thing until a couple days ago when I was listening to this video with this guy from Chicago in it and he was saying both like [bɔʟθ]. I wonder if it's common in that area for that kind of thing to happen.

Anywayy, I pronounce home [hɵːm] usually, but if I'm saying it like "I didn't go to the store, I went home." then it's [hoʊm]


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:05 pm 
Sumerul
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Theta wrote:
I hadn't known about that intrusive L thing until a couple days ago when I was listening to this video with this guy from Chicago in it and he was saying both like [bɔʟθ]. I wonder if it's common in that area for that kind of thing to happen.

I have heard of people out by the West Coast who do that, actually, but I had never heard of that being found in Chicago before.

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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:04 am 
Avisaru
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Lyhoko Leaci wrote:
Okay then, how do you pronounce "home"? (Both the place where one lives, and as in homing missile)

I [hoʊm] in on my [hɔʟm].

(I'm not entirely sure what vowel is in the second, but it's not the same as the first. I think it's somewhere in between [o] and [ɔ]...)


[hoːm]


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:09 am 
Avisaru
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Nortaneous wrote:
edit: How about 'because'? I've heard both /ʌ/ and /ɔ/ there.

finlay wrote:
you do what now? i will need to see proof of [ʟ]. it's different from [ɫ] without alveolar contact.

I'm guessing he's referring to that weird intrusive-l thing that occasionally appears in words like 'both'. I think it only appears after /o/, though, so maybe it's just a split: historical /o/ usually becomes /əu̯/, but occasionally becomes something like /oˤ/.
Interesting, I have an intrusive L in "Both"

[b̥oɫ̞θ]


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:16 am 
Lebom
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How is b̥ different from p?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:23 am 
Avisaru
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/ˈkloʊsəɹ, ˈkjuːnjɪfɔːɹm, ˈhɛəɹ, ˈhɜːɹ, ˈɛəɹ, ˈhoʊm, ˈboʊθ/ [ˈkʰɫ̥ö̞̜ʊsɰ̹̩˞, ˈk͡xʰjʉu̯ȵjɪ̞ˌfo̞ɰ̹˞m, ˈhe̞ɛ̯̈ɰ̹˞, ˈhˠɰ̹̩˞ˑ, ˈɛɛ̯̈ɰ̹˞, ˈhö̞̜ʊm, ˈbö̞̜ʊθ]. Don't Travicize me, this is completely true, this is the closest I can get to the x-canIPA (the limit of transcriptin, I believe, to go any further would mean having a different system for every mouth).

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:18 am 
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Nortaneous wrote:
edit: How about 'because'? I've heard both /ʌ/ and /ɔ/ there.

finlay wrote:
you do what now? i will need to see proof of [ʟ]. it's different from [ɫ] without alveolar contact.

I'm guessing he's referring to that weird intrusive-l thing that occasionally appears in words like 'both'. I think it only appears after /o/, though, so maybe it's just a split: historical /o/ usually becomes /əu̯/, but occasionally becomes something like /oˤ/.


Does intrusive l actually occur before labials? I've encountered people who have it before (generally in /boT/ -> [bolT]), but haven't really seen much analysis of it, and had always assumed it was the off glide on the /o/ assimilating in place of articulation to the following consonant (generally an alveolar or dental).


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:39 am 
Avisaru
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My sister does the intrusive-L thing. I know for certain in the word "both", and probably others. I have [ʟ] for /l/ lots, in fact I don't think I ever have [l] for /l/, it's always velarized.

Actually my "[ʟ]" might be more uvular or even pharyngeal. Not sure, it's hard for me to tell so far back there.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:12 am 
Sumerul
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Aiďos wrote:
/ˈkloʊsəɹ, ˈkjuːnjɪfɔːɹm, ˈhɛəɹ, ˈhɜːɹ, ˈɛəɹ, ˈhoʊm, ˈboʊθ/ [ˈkʰɫ̥ö̞̜ʊsɰ̹̩˞, ˈk͡xʰjʉu̯ȵjɪ̞ˌfo̞ɰ̹˞m, ˈhe̞ɛ̯̈ɰ̹˞, ˈhˠɰ̹̩˞ˑ, ˈɛɛ̯̈ɰ̹˞, ˈhö̞̜ʊm, ˈbö̞̜ʊθ]. Don't Travicize me, this is completely true, this is the closest I can get to the x-canIPA (the limit of transcriptin, I believe, to go any further would mean having a different system for every mouth).

Dude, the problem is a. that this level of detail is rarely ever appropriate, even on a thread like this, since you're implying that you never pronounce these words any differently to this... and yet these are strictly the way that you pronounce them in isolation over and over... and b. that canIPA is a load of bullshit, but that's kinda by the wayside. It's not that I don't necessarily believe what you write.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:15 am 
Smeric
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Zumir wrote:
How is b̥ different from p?


The degree of unvoicing, b̥ is sort of halfway voiced if that makes any sense.

I also never have [l] for /l/, most of the time it's [ɫ] but in words like 'milk' it'll lose coronal articulation entirely and become [mɪɰk].


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:31 pm 
Sumerul
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Theta wrote:
Zumir wrote:
How is b̥ different from p?


The degree of unvoicing, b̥ is sort of halfway voiced if that makes any sense.

Well, properly, no. Actually the difference is this: [b̥] is voiceless lenis while [p] is voiceless fortis.

Now, what does this actually mean?

[b] and [p], despite how people often seem to think of them, are not actually a pair of phones that only differ by voicing. Rather there are a range of other phonetic features associated with the two, such as length, nature of release, and so on that can be broadly grouped into two categories typically named lenis and fortis respectively.

Hence [b̥] is a phone that is phonetically like [b] except that it is voiceless like [p].

(All of the above applies for other plosive triplets like [d], [d̥], and [t]; [dz], [d̥z̥], and [ts]; [dʒ], [d̥ʒ̊], and [tʃ]; and [ɡ], [ɡ̊] and [k] as well.)

Edit: Actually, I should note that this also applies to other obstruents as well, but it is most clear-cut and obvious with plosives.

Theta wrote:
I also never have [l] for /l/, most of the time it's [ɫ] but in words like 'milk' it'll lose coronal articulation entirely and become [mɪɰk].

This sort of thing is actually extremely common in North American English varieties, it seems, despite that the usual descriptions of the likes of General American lack this.

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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


Last edited by Travis B. on Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:34 pm 
Sumerul
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finlay wrote:
Aiďos wrote:
/ˈkloʊsəɹ, ˈkjuːnjɪfɔːɹm, ˈhɛəɹ, ˈhɜːɹ, ˈɛəɹ, ˈhoʊm, ˈboʊθ/ [ˈkʰɫ̥ö̞̜ʊsɰ̹̩˞, ˈk͡xʰjʉu̯ȵjɪ̞ˌfo̞ɰ̹˞m, ˈhe̞ɛ̯̈ɰ̹˞, ˈhˠɰ̹̩˞ˑ, ˈɛɛ̯̈ɰ̹˞, ˈhö̞̜ʊm, ˈbö̞̜ʊθ]. Don't Travicize me, this is completely true, this is the closest I can get to the x-canIPA (the limit of transcriptin, I believe, to go any further would mean having a different system for every mouth).

Dude, the problem is a. that this level of detail is rarely ever appropriate, even on a thread like this, since you're implying that you never pronounce these words any differently to this... and yet these are strictly the way that you pronounce them in isolation over and over... and b. that canIPA is a load of bullshit, but that's kinda by the wayside. It's not that I don't necessarily believe what you write.

To be honest... that makes my transcriptions seem simple... and often when I mark things in a rather complex fashion it is because I am marking different features simultaneously (e.g. some POA adjustment combined with nasalization and maybe also with non-syllabicity) rather than trying to exactly specify the POA of individual phones canIPA-esque-ly...

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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:10 pm 
Sanci
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okay how do yu pronounce this


1. X initially [X-]

2. Citizen

3. Front


1. X at the beginning of a word for me is usually reads /ks/ in my mind but i usually just use /z/ when speaking to other people.
depending on the word it can be /gz/, /ʃ/, /s/, /h/ , /zː/, or /ɛks/

in order of first to last mentioned

Xylophone
Xerox (english x=/z/)
Xerxes
Xiaolin
Xu
Xeer
Xoxe
X-axis


2. /'sɪd.ə'zɪn/

3. /'fɻʌnt/ , /'fɹʷʌnʈ/ uncareful speech or even /.fʌnː/ in really uncareful speech, the occurance me saying them goes in opposite order where i typed them

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Last edited by Umega on Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:27 pm 
Avisaru
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hair [hɛɚ]
her [hɘ˞ː]~[ɘ˞ː]~[ɚ]~[ə]
heir [ɛɚ]
home [hɞʉm]~[hœʉm]~[hœːm]
both [bɞʉθ]~[bœʉθ]~[bœːθ]
milk [mɪo̯k]

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Ascima mresa óscsma sáca psta numar cemea.
Cemea tae neasc ctá ms co ísbas Ascima.
Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:28 pm 
Sumerul
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Umega wrote:
okay how do yu pronounce this
1. X-
...
X- for me is usually reads /ks/ in my mind but i usually just use /z/ when speaking to other people.
depending on the word it can be /gz/, /ʃ/, /s/, /h/ , /zː/, or /ɛks/

in order of first to last mentioned
Xylophone
Xerox (english x=/z/)
Xerxes
Xiaolin
Xu
Xeer
Xoxe
X-axis
This makes as little sense as the reason you exist. :?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:30 pm 
Sanci
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i edited it check again or atleast respond

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:31 pm 
Sumerul
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Great, now everything is clearer! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:37 pm 
Smeric
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I don't think any of the things you suggested really have any variation at all, Umega.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:39 pm 
Sanci
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maybe the last one won't

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:39 pm 
Lebom
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@Travis B.: Thanks for clearing that up.

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