Oops! I missed it.Qwynegold wrote:French is there.TomHChappell wrote:You left out French and Hindi.
The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
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- Avisaru
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Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
What's your source for this? Because my wee brother who speaks fluent Gaelic says Fhionnlaigh is [fIn5@G]. And the form with the h is the lenited form like finlay says. I suppose there is still a significant amount of dialectal variation to account for though.Nancy Blackett wrote: it can be most disconcerting to learn that Fhionnlaigh is actually pronounced /"ju:.L@/,
I certainly wouldn't include Hindi. Remembering a different script makes it harder but it's basically regular. The pronounciation, especially [d`_h\], is a hard bit too.TomHChappell wrote:You left out French and Hindi.finlay wrote:But from my limited experience of all of them, these all at least seem to be in the same "league":
Japanese, Chinese, Burmese, Thai, Tibetan, French, Gaelic in all its flavours (Irish, Scottish, maybe Manx), Swedish, Danish, Norwegian
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Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
I was referring to the way that in Hindi orthography, the word "hindi" is spelled, in effect, like "ihndi".jmcd wrote:I certainly wouldn't include Hindi. Remembering a different script makes it harder but it's basically regular. The pronounciation, especially [d`_h\], is a hard bit too.TomHChappell wrote:You left out French and Hindi.
That's not weirder than English, but IMO it's as weird.
Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
My knowledge of Irish pronunciation tells me that 'Fhionnlaigh' should be pronounced something like ['inˠlˠə], elited(?) f is always silent. but I've read as well that there's a lot of dialectical variation in Irish Gaelic so the pronunciation could be completely different in separate places.jmcd wrote:What's your source for this? Because my wee brother who speaks fluent Gaelic says Fhionnlaigh is [fIn5@G]. And the form with the h is the lenited form like finlay says. I suppose there is still a significant amount of dialectal variation to account for though.Nancy Blackett wrote: it can be most disconcerting to learn that Fhionnlaigh is actually pronounced /"ju:.L@/,
Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
That's... not really weird spelling, though, that's a quirk of the scripts of the area. It's regular, unlike a fair amount of English. Even though we tend to vastly overstate the "weirdness" of English.TomHChappell wrote:I was referring to the way that in Hindi orthography, the word "hindi" is spelled, in effect, like "ihndi".jmcd wrote:I certainly wouldn't include Hindi. Remembering a different script makes it harder but it's basically regular. The pronounciation, especially [d`_h\], is a hard bit too.TomHChappell wrote:You left out French and Hindi.
That's not weirder than English, but IMO it's as weird.
- AnTeallach
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Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
The pronunciation guide on Akerbeltz supports Nancy/Geoff's [ju:], but not the rest. But I suspect there's enough dialect variation that your brother is right too (except I think the pronunciation you gave corresponds to the spelling Fionnlagh).jmcd wrote:What's your source for this? Because my wee brother who speaks fluent Gaelic says Fhionnlaigh is [fIn5@G]. And the form with the h is the lenited form like finlay says. I suppose there is still a significant amount of dialectal variation to account for though.Nancy Blackett wrote: it can be most disconcerting to learn that Fhionnlaigh is actually pronounced /"ju:.L@/,
Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
I don't think it'd be /ʎ/ given that it's broad rather than slender. But I don't really know gaelic. All I know is that the anglicised pronunciation /fɪnleɪ/ derives from one or other of these spellings. I've always remembered it as Fionnlaidh, although I think here dh/gh are interchangeable. They'd be slender in that position, so /j/ or something. And yeah, I think aspirated F becomes silent.
Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
Oh yeah I'd copy pasted it and apparently forgotten to remove the h.AnTeallach wrote:(except I think the pronunciation you gave corresponds to the spelling Fionnlagh).jmcd wrote:What's your source for this? Because my wee brother who speaks fluent Gaelic says Fhionnlaigh is [fIn5@G]. And the form with the h is the lenited form like finlay says. I suppose there is still a significant amount of dialectal variation to account for though.Nancy Blackett wrote: it can be most disconcerting to learn that Fhionnlaigh is actually pronounced /"ju:.L@/,
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Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
yes, fh is silent. i'd also expect gh to be silent there, but apparently it's not? iunno maybe he meant scottish gaelic or something
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
He did mean Scottish Gaelic yeah. But I think I might have got a bit confused at first here; anyway, it should have been -aigh (which is ) not -agh [@G].Nortaneous wrote:yes, fh is silent. i'd also expect gh to be silent there, but apparently it's not? iunno maybe he meant scottish gaelic or something
Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
English, it can't just have one spelling or pronunciation for a sound, its gotta have more. It's also got more irregular verbs and homophone words than it knows what to do with.
Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
jmcd wrote:He did mean Scottish Gaelic yeah. But I think I might have got a bit confused at first here; anyway, it should have been -aigh (which is ) not -agh [@G].Nortaneous wrote:yes, fh is silent. i'd also expect gh to be silent there, but apparently it's not? iunno maybe he meant scottish gaelic or something
Or maybe it was my fault; it's actually Fhionnlaidh, with dh instead of gh, although of course that shouldn't affect the pronunciation.
Zompist's Markov generator wrote:it was labelled" orange marmalade," but that is unutterably hideous.
Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
We've been over this. You're wrong – we can find examples of each of those that are "worse" than English. (Burmese, Tibetan and Thai have irregular spelling in their native scripts with often lots of different letters for the one sound, and they're all trumped by Chinese and Japanese anyway; French, German and most other IE languages have more irregular verbs and, notably, a greater level of impact that this has on learning the verb itself, because in English you learn three parts to a verb (ie, present, preterite and participle), but in French, for example, you have to learn an extensive paradigm; Chinese omg Chinese and fucking Japanese are so much worse for homophones... although this is mitigated by the morphemic writing system. Still, this puts both of them in two camps. Korean's also bad for homophones.)hadad wrote:English, it can't just have one spelling or pronunciation for a sound, its gotta have more. It's also got more irregular verbs and homophone words than it knows what to do with.
English's main problem is the non-intuitive orthography, but quite frankly, we could be putting up with a lot worse than we are.
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Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
Fhionnlaidh is the vocative (and genitive) of Fionnladh. You just have to remember Seumas and Hamish ...
Kyn nag ov den skentel pur ...
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Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
Necromancy is outlawed by the decree of the Reichstag of 1982
sano wrote:To my dearest Darkgamma,
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Sincerely,
sano
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Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
No it isn't
Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
This is not quite as weird as it seems, since the matra (vowel sign) is considered something like an adornment or modification to the akshara (consonant sign), rather than an individual letter in its own right. In that sense it is not really any different from using a macron above a Latin letter rather than after it to indicate vowel length (according to this reasoning, a- is more visually intuitive than ā). Another example that is similar to Devanagari yet not really considered strange is the curve or bar that indicates the /a/ vowel in Ge'ez script. It sometimes extends to the left past the main body of the letter, like in the last letter of this image. the /i/ vowel sign of Devanagari is just the result of a gradual extension of that line further and further until it eventually reached the same height as the main letter.TomHChappell wrote:I was referring to the way that in Hindi orthography, the word "hindi" is spelled, in effect, like "ihndi".
That's not weirder than English, but IMO it's as weird.
Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
I couldn't remember writing that...
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Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
2 years is a long time bro
ysoforgetfulbro
ysoforgetfulbro
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Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
Oh, that date was for 2011. I fail at reading. I didn't think a few months was worth complaining about, but yeah okay that's pretty necro.
Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
I made the same mistake.
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Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
2011, yeah. Whatever, the battle rages on.
Yeah I'm not buying the Hindi thing. The vowel markers coming before the main glyph, or around, or under, or stacked, or w/e are pretty common in south and southeast Asian orthographies.
As for Hindi, after a day or two of reading the script such "tail before head" issues click. It's really a matter of information chunking: the consonant symbol is key, then consider the vowel markers. Hindi orthography could get more specific complaints like schwa syncope, but I suspect that can be learned fairly quickly.
Otherwise it's a pretty normal SOV two gender language with agglutinative suffixes, a split ergative in perfective, and few irregularities outside of causatives (which are perhaps better thought of as a vocab).
I think English and German are both replete with irregularities and I blame a long and active literary tradition coupled with a sclerotic orthography and a love for inserting Latin prescriptivism grammatical features. When people tell me to not split infinitives or use hanging prepositions I get so ticked off. Keep your fused infinitives.
Yeah I'm not buying the Hindi thing. The vowel markers coming before the main glyph, or around, or under, or stacked, or w/e are pretty common in south and southeast Asian orthographies.
As for Hindi, after a day or two of reading the script such "tail before head" issues click. It's really a matter of information chunking: the consonant symbol is key, then consider the vowel markers. Hindi orthography could get more specific complaints like schwa syncope, but I suspect that can be learned fairly quickly.
Otherwise it's a pretty normal SOV two gender language with agglutinative suffixes, a split ergative in perfective, and few irregularities outside of causatives (which are perhaps better thought of as a vocab).
I think English and German are both replete with irregularities and I blame a long and active literary tradition coupled with a sclerotic orthography and a love for inserting Latin prescriptivism grammatical features. When people tell me to not split infinitives or use hanging prepositions I get so ticked off. Keep your fused infinitives.
linguoboy wrote:So that's what it looks like when the master satirist is moistened by his own moutarde.
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Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
Am I the only one who thinks Tibetan orthography isn't actually that bad? I'm glad there's just one way to read a word.
I did have a bizarrely similar (to the original poster's) accident about four years ago, in which I slipped over a cookie and somehow twisted my ankle so far that it broke
Aeetlrcreejl > Kicgan Vekei > me /ne.ses.tso.sats/What kind of cookie?
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Re: The Most Batshit Natlang Competition!
You are boring, Victor. Batshit = awesome.
That's the reason my hatred for Esperanto has quietly subsided.
As far as Finlay's years-old comments on Gaelic go, it stande to reason that Scottish is worse in that regard than Irish. Consider these:
oíche - oidhche (night)
[iːhə] - [ɤ̃ɪ̃çə]
donn - donn (brown, dark-haired)
[dˠɔnˠ] - [dˠãũnˠ]
mac - mac (son)
[makʰ] - [maxkʰ]
That's the reason my hatred for Esperanto has quietly subsided.
As far as Finlay's years-old comments on Gaelic go, it stande to reason that Scottish is worse in that regard than Irish. Consider these:
oíche - oidhche (night)
[iːhə] - [ɤ̃ɪ̃çə]
donn - donn (brown, dark-haired)
[dˠɔnˠ] - [dˠãũnˠ]
mac - mac (son)
[makʰ] - [maxkʰ]
陳第 wrote:蓋時有古今,地有南北;字有更革,音有轉移,亦勢所必至。
Read all about my excellent conlangsR.Rusanov wrote:seks istiyorum
sex want-PRS-1sg
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