zompist bboard

Read this. I thought it was at least noteworthy. Scold me if otherwise.

Uh, this doesn't give evidence of grammar, it gives evidence of what could debatably called phonology. After all, it sounds like all they were doing was rearranging pitches, and I'm pretty sure animals distinguishing pitch sequences is not revolutionary. The article even uses the word "syllables", which are usually not on the level of syntax (unless the article is claiming that finch-language is limited to monosyllabic morphemes). And there isn't evidence that the finches reactions are indicators of ungrammaticality– in fact, the article says it's triggered by unfamiliarity, and the researchers may just have stumbled upon some meaningful sequence, or perhaps the other versions were similar enough to the original that the birds counted them as the same.

I wonder why they think the birds have grammar just because they react differently to one of the songs. I react differently to different songs in Japanese, for example, even though I don't know the grammar of the language. How is that related to grammar?

Mr. Z wrote:I wonder why they think the birds have grammar just because they react differently to one of the songs. I react differently to different songs in Japanese, for example, even though I don't know the grammar of the language. How is that related to grammar?

I've not read the article, but: you respond differently to different songs in Japanese because you know (something about) the grammar of the musical language, even if you don't know any of the grammar of the language of the lyrics.

This article is nuts. Although it's interesting that the birds reacted differently to just one of the remixes, there could be other reasons. Maybe the remix resulting in a bird-language insult.

Does this seem cruel to anyone?

Finally, Abe chemically destroyed an area of the brain called the anterior nidopallium in some birds, and was thereby able to demonstrate that it is vital for registering faulty grammar. In humans, a region called Broca's area is activated when we hear ungrammatical sentences, so Abe suggests that studying the counterpart region in finches might throw new light on the origins of human grammar.

He basically gives the birds aphasia, a terrible disorder which would leave them socially isolated.

I disagree. He might have prevented the bird from mating, but since bird-song isn't actually a language, the bird wouldn't suffer from what makes the disease horrible in the first place.
Anyway, welcome to the board lalamans! Have some pickles and tea.

It may only demonstrate that syntax has some sort of meaning in their songs.