zompist bboard

I've observed this now on two separate occasions with two separate professors, one from Colombia and the other from Bolivia. They both have a strong tendency to use the English word "so" when speaking completely in Spanish. They will be speaking in Spanish, pause, say "so," and continue without ever even realising it. Is this attested to elsewhere? Are the Spanish equivalents to "so," "pues," "por eso," etc.so lacking that speakers find the English equivalent preferable? Is this attested to in other languages?

Is it not possible that this is a native word - perhaps some kind of contraction of por eso?

Viktor77 wrote:I've observed this now on two separate occasions with two separate professors, one from Colombia and the other from Bolivia. They both have a strong tendency to use the English word "so" when speaking completely in Spanish. They will be speaking in Spanish, pause, say "so," and continue without ever even realising it. Is this attested to elsewhere? Are the Spanish equivalents to "so," "pues," "por eso," etc.so lacking that speakers find the English equivalent preferable? Is this attested to in other languages?

But how do they pronounce it? [so], [so:], [sow]...?

Izo wrote:

Viktor77 wrote:I've observed this now on two separate occasions with two separate professors, one from Colombia and the other from Bolivia. They both have a strong tendency to use the English word "so" when speaking completely in Spanish. They will be speaking in Spanish, pause, say "so," and continue without ever even realising it. Is this attested to elsewhere? Are the Spanish equivalents to "so," "pues," "por eso," etc.so lacking that speakers find the English equivalent preferable? Is this attested to in other languages?

But how do they pronounce it? [so], [so:], [sow]...?

[so] or [so:]. They lack the [oU], but that's only because they're not native speakers.

Sure it's not actually eso? That seems more likely, especially if they have /ou/ in English.

harp darp it was [so] harp darp must be english harp darp

YngNghymru wrote:Is it not possible that this is a native word - perhaps some kind of contraction of por eso?

Popisfizzy wrote:harp darp it was [so] harp darp must be english harp darp

Viktor77 wrote:

Izo wrote:

Viktor77 wrote:I've observed this now on two separate occasions with two separate professors, one from Colombia and the other from Bolivia. They both have a strong tendency to use the English word "so" when speaking completely in Spanish. They will be speaking in Spanish, pause, say "so," and continue without ever even realising it. Is this attested to elsewhere? Are the Spanish equivalents to "so," "pues," "por eso," etc.so lacking that speakers find the English equivalent preferable? Is this attested to in other languages?

But how do they pronounce it? [so], [so:], [sow]...?

[so] or [so:]. They lack the [oU], but that's only because they're not native speakers.

Well, they could have [soʊ]. That's why I ask. Many Latinamericans use English words without adapting them to their dialects. It could be that some took so and pronounced it in a similar way as it's pronounced in English.

On the other hand, and according to DRAE, there are four meaning for so. For the first one it says this:

DRAE wrote:so¹.

(Contracc. de seó).

1. adv. U. para potenciar las cualidades del adjetivo o del nombre a que antecede.

Basically it tells us that is a shortening of seó (which acording to DRAE, again, is an apocope of seor, which is a syncope of señor "sir", "lord") and is used to improve the qualities of the adjetive or the noun it precedes.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to say that this word is also used in Castilian. Example: Mira que eres feo... ¡Feo, feo! ¡So feo! "You are so ugly... Ugly, ugly! So ugly!"

This is defintely "so" and not "eso" and it's used as a conjunction not an adjective. My Spanish profs are regular English speakers and of course are switching between the two constantly. Still, they will use "so" even when talking extensively in Spanish. It's sort of like when they use "ya" as in "yea" in Spanish as opposed to "si." It's an Anglicism but the "so" must exist because Spanish lacks quality alternatives, and I'm inclined to agree with this. French has "alors" which is used everywhere but Spanish seems to lack a real equivalent to "so" and English-Speaking hispanophones must really find "so" subconsciously useful.

Viktor77 wrote:This is defintely "so" and not "eso" and it's used as a conjunction not an adjective. My Spanish profs are regular English speakers and of course are switching between the two constantly. Still, they will use "so" even when talking extensively in Spanish. It's sort of like when they use "ya" as in "yea" in Spanish as opposed to "si." It's an Anglicism but the "so" must exist because Spanish lacks quality alternatives, and I'm inclined to agree with this. French has "alors" which is used everywhere but Spanish seems to lack a real equivalent to "so" and English-Speaking hispanophones must really find "so" subconsciously useful.

How can you tell that it's not a shortened form of eso?

jajajajajajajaja

Drydic Guy wrote:jajajajajajajaja

Why does laughing in Spanish always look so much more trollish than in English?

YngNghymru wrote:

Viktor77 wrote:This is defintely "so" and not "eso" and it's used as a conjunction not an adjective. My Spanish profs are regular English speakers and of course are switching between the two constantly. Still, they will use "so" even when talking extensively in Spanish. It's sort of like when they use "ya" as in "yea" in Spanish as opposed to "si." It's an Anglicism but the "so" must exist because Spanish lacks quality alternatives, and I'm inclined to agree with this. French has "alors" which is used everywhere but Spanish seems to lack a real equivalent to "so" and English-Speaking hispanophones must really find "so" subconsciously useful.

How can you tell that it's not a shortened form of eso?

Because it was used where you'd find "so" in English and there was enough pause to be able to know I didn't hear an [e].

Do you understand what "shortened" means?

cromulant wrote:Do you understand what "shortened" means?

Can you give me a source that attests to "eso" being shortened to "so" and used as a conjunction, please?

Why don't you just ask your professors?

Like others, I'm skeptical of your analysis; it's really easy to mis-hear things in another language; plus there's just no reason for Spanish speakers to borrow nearly-contentless pragmatic particles when they have their own.

(However, I also doubt the "eso" analysis.)

zompist wrote:Why don't you just ask your professors?

Like others, I'm skeptical of your analysis; it's really easy to mis-hear things in another language; plus there's just no reason for Spanish speakers to borrow nearly-contentless pragmatic particles when they have their own.

(However, I also doubt the "eso" analysis.)

I will, I just fear bringing it up will sound like I'm calling them out on what might be some sort of English slip and that's not the nicest thing to do to someone, especially someone who maintains a high level of respect.

Viktor77 wrote:I will, I just fear bringing it up will sound like I'm calling them out on what might be some sort of English slip and that's not the nicest thing to do to someone, especially someone who maintains a high level of respect.

Don't be silly. Just do it.

It could be that they're using the English so. I found this: http://books.google.es/books?id=KQ98DtE ... &q&f=false

Chapter 7.2.3.4 Los marcadores del discurso. About the use of certain English words (like like, I mean, you know and so) by bilingual Latinamericans in the USA. To point out a speech, commonly using these English words unconsciously.

I don't think everyone's negativity here is warranted. In bilingual situations discourse particles are some of the first words to be borrowed/code switched from one language to another. And, on top of that, they're some of the easiest words to not realize you've been using; even people who are very carefully trying to avoid mixing languages will occasionally or even frequently lapse when i comes to discourse markers. They're just especially good at slipping under our personal linguistic radars.

Nonsense. Negativity is always warranted.

How did you know they didn’t borrow it from Japanese?

Mecislau wrote:I don't think everyone's negativity here is warranted. In bilingual situations discourse particles are some of the first words to be borrowed/code switched from one language to another. And, on top of that, they're some of the easiest words to not realize you've been using; even people who are very carefully trying to avoid mixing languages will occasionally or even frequently lapse when i comes to discourse markers. They're just especially good at slipping under our personal linguistic radars.

It's warranted because the person reporting it has a history of mishearing, misinterpretation, and just plain being wrong about a wide variety of things.

Izo wrote:On the other hand, and according to DRAE, there are four meaning for so. For the first one it says this:

DRAE wrote:so¹.

(Contracc. de seó).

1. adv. U. para potenciar las cualidades del adjetivo o del nombre a que antecede.

Basically it tells us that is a shortening of seó (which acording to DRAE, again, is an apocope of seor, which is a syncope of señor "sir", "lord") and is used to improve the qualities of the adjetive or the noun it precedes.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to say that this word is also used in Castilian. Example: Mira que eres feo... ¡Feo, feo! ¡So feo! "You are so ugly... Ugly, ugly! So ugly!"

1. This is a different usage than the one Viktor is referring to though. "They will be speaking in Spanish, pause, say "so," and continue without ever even realising it."

2. "So feo": That sounds so weird to me! And wow, coming from seó...

Viktor77 wrote:It's an Anglicism but the "so" must exist because Spanish lacks quality alternatives, and I'm inclined to agree with this. French has "alors" which is used everywhere but Spanish seems to lack a real equivalent to "so"

Y entonces, entonces, pues y entonces, por lo que...

and English-Speaking hispanophones must really find "so" subconsciously useful.

I don't.

Izo wrote:It could be that they're using the English so. I found this: http://books.google.es/books?id=KQ98DtE ... &q&f=false

Chapter 7.2.3.4 Los marcadores del discurso. About the use of certain English words (like like, I mean, you know and so) by bilingual Latinamericans in the USA. To point out a speech, commonly using these English words unconsciously.

Mecislau wrote:I don't think everyone's negativity here is warranted. In bilingual situations discourse particles are some of the first words to be borrowed/code switched from one language to another. And, on top of that, they're some of the easiest words to not realize you've been using; even people who are very carefully trying to avoid mixing languages will occasionally or even frequently lapse when i comes to discourse markers. They're just especially good at slipping under our personal linguistic radars.

This. THIS. I've only heard it from bilingual Latin Americans living in North America as well, never heard that in El Salvador. And interestingly, as a simple [so] at that, no diphthong.

Shm Jay wrote:How did you know they didn’t borrow it from Japanese?

Because it's not used that way in Japanese.