French and Arabic indefinites
French and Arabic indefinites
Our Arabic teacher today said he once attended a talk by a linguist (?) claiming that Arabic indefinite "nunated" endings have had an influence on the development of un/une in French.
Is there any evidence for it either way? I'd instinctively distrust any such claims, but maybe there's some proper linguistic evidence (rather than just nebulous inferences) that confirm this. I don't know.
Is there any evidence for it either way? I'd instinctively distrust any such claims, but maybe there's some proper linguistic evidence (rather than just nebulous inferences) that confirm this. I don't know.
High Eolic (PDF)
Re: French and Arabic indefinites
So the lesson is: never trust a qualified teacher (decidedly not an academic) on matters of formal linguistics.Serafín wrote:Definitely bunk.
High Eolic (PDF)
Re: French and Arabic indefinites
My French teacher (of many years ago) once instructed the class to say /sIl vuz pleɪt/...so, yeah...trust but verify.Cathbad wrote:So the lesson is: never trust a qualified teacher (decidedly not an academic) on matters of formal linguistics.Serafín wrote:Definitely bunk.
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Re: French and Arabic indefinites
Why don't you go ask him for evidence/references then? Never seen that mentioned, can't even imagine how that'd work.Cathbad wrote:So the lesson is: never trust a qualified teacher (decidedly not an academic) on matters of formal linguistics.Serafín wrote:Definitely bunk.
A friend of mine taking Latin at uni heard her professor implying that English comes from Latin. Something like "the difference between qui and quem is close to who and whom. The -m in who and whom actually goes back to our Latin times!"...
Re: French and Arabic indefinites
Now, that's a fairly common misconception, which, outside of linguistic circles is slightly reasonable considering how many borrowings the modern English lexicon has from Greek and Latin. I'm not saying it's correct, just that so many people (non-linguist types) assume that the use of the borrowings somehow indicates descendancy.Serafín wrote:A friend of mine taking Latin at uni heard her professor implying that English comes from Latin. Something like "the difference between qui and quem is close to who and whom. The -m in who and whom actually goes back to our Latin times!"...
Re: French and Arabic indefinites
To be honest it wasn't actually him who made the claim; he says he heard a linguist claim this at some talk, but that he "can't remember the details". Which is supremely risky for the spread of an unfounded urban legend, especially among my classmates, whose linguistic skepticism is probably rather less developed than mine. But I can't go around telling them all that what the teacher said is plainly wrong, can I?Serafín wrote:Why don't you go ask him for evidence/references then? Never seen that mentioned, can't even imagine how that'd work.Cathbad wrote:So the lesson is: never trust a qualified teacher (decidedly not an academic) on matters of formal linguistics.Serafín wrote:Definitely bunk.
High Eolic (PDF)
Re: French and Arabic indefinites
The Persian professor at my uni got his textbook published which had grammatical errors in it which his students had to point out to him. So yeah, never trust a professor. (Luckily they've got postgrads and very kind native-speaker students teaching them now instead...)
Re: French and Arabic indefinites
Indeed, language teachers are not linguists.So the lesson is: never trust a qualified teacher (decidedly not an academic) on matters of formal linguistics.
I think it is intensely sad to see a professor who's studied English for 20+ years but still make numerous simple grammar and spelling mistakes in a single paragraph. It's one thing when a Russian professor leaves out "a" or "an", but the stuff my Chinese professors come up with is just ridiculous. I've also had a professor that spoke Arabic that left the 's' off the end of every 3rd person singular verb... except "is" and "has". At least he'd spell and use it right though.The Persian professor at my uni got his textbook published which had grammatical errors in it which his students had to point out to him. So yeah, never trust a professor. (Luckily they've got postgrads and very kind native-speaker students teaching them now instead...)
Re: French and Arabic indefinites
(Professor of Persian language, that is, wrote a textbook for his students with grammatical errors in the Persian. Not a professor who is Persian with mistakes in the English.)
Re: French and Arabic indefinites
Well, besides the fact that the syntactic placement is completely different (and nunation is an affix, not a pronominal clitic), the use of a morpheme meaning "one" evolving into an indefinite marker is a widespread linguistic phenomenon (not to mention a common development in many Romance langs). Why do we need to explain this by Arabic influence, especially a feature of formal non-pausal Arabic?Cathbad wrote:Our Arabic teacher today said he once attended a talk by a linguist (?) claiming that Arabic indefinite "nunated" endings have had an influence on the development of un/une in French.
Is there any evidence for it either way? I'd instinctively distrust any such claims, but maybe there's some proper linguistic evidence (rather than just nebulous inferences) that confirm this. I don't know.
لا يرقىء الله عيني من بكى حجراً
ولا شفى وجد من يصبو إلى وتدِ
("May God never dry the tears of those who cry over stones, nor ease the love-pangs of those who yearn for tent-pegs.") - Abu Nawas
ولا شفى وجد من يصبو إلى وتدِ
("May God never dry the tears of those who cry over stones, nor ease the love-pangs of those who yearn for tent-pegs.") - Abu Nawas
Re: French and Arabic indefinites
The other option is of course that the argument was something completely different, and that my teacher misremembered it (which would not be surprising).
I'll do a quick Google search later if I have time.
I'll do a quick Google search later if I have time.
High Eolic (PDF)