zompist bboard

1. That is the reason why we keep that door closed.
2. That is the reason we keep that door closed.
3. That is why we keep that door closed.

Do you find any of these unacceptable? Which do you prefer, if any? Can you explain?

Bob Johnson wrote:1. That is the reason why we keep that door closed.
2. That is the reason we keep that door closed.
3. That is why we keep that door closed.

Do you find any of these unacceptable? Which do you prefer, if any? Can you explain?

Number 3 is acceptable and probably number 2, number 1 I don't like as much. For the first two I keep wanting to use this or some other change of syntax.

#3 sounds the best, but none of them sound really wrong. I have no idea of how to explain this. Maybe just because it's shorter.

All acceptable, no real differences except for the timing/length of utterance/etc. For me, at least. In casual speech, I'd be more likely to say the third, but I think it's probably just because it's faster. I kind of feel like it should be "the door" instead of "that door", but that's probably context-dependent.

1 sounds the best, 3 is more casual. 2 sounds strange.

Bob Johnson wrote:1. That is the reason why we keep that door closed.
2. That is the reason we keep that door closed.
3. That is why we keep that door closed.

Do you find any of these unacceptable? Which do you prefer, if any? Can you explain?

Well, all of them sound much more natural with "That's" rather than "that is".

#1 sounds a bit weird, but the general construction "the reason why we..." doesn't.

I also might say "That's the reason that we keep that door closed."

prefer 2, none ungrammatical to me, non-native.

They are all acceptable, with 3 being the best and 1 being the worst of the three. 1 is too redundant and wordy.

linguofreak wrote: Well, all of them sound much more natural with "That's" rather than "that is".

Seconded on this, though keeping them separate sounds a bit better if you are stressing "that", though that could still be combined as a stressed "that's".

Lyhoko Leaci wrote:

linguofreak wrote:Well, all of them sound much more natural with "That's" rather than "that is".

Seconded on this, though keeping them separate sounds a bit better if you are stressing "that", though that could still be combined as a stressed "that's".

Note the italics on <that>: it's heavily stressed. Not really the point, though it is interesting. (And again...)

Now that I'm a bit down the page: I heavily prefer simply "why" here, but I hear "the reason why" all the time, and I wonder (at the reason) why people use it when they could say only "the reason" or "why" instead. It sounds pleonastic to me. I know it's not modern; it shows up in everything from Shakespeare on:

As You Like It III.ii wrote:ROSALIND. Love is merely a madness; and, I tell you, deserves as well a dark house and a whip as madmen do: and the reason why they are not so punished and cured is, that the lunacy is so ordinary that the whippers are in love too. Yet I profess curing it by counsel

I figure there might be some prosodic or intonation effect -- which seems in line with what I'm seeing here so far -- but I'm not sure what exactly that effect might be.

Bob Johnson wrote:1. That is the reason why we keep that door closed.
2. That is the reason we keep that door closed.
3. That is why we keep that door closed.

Do you find any of these unacceptable? Which do you prefer, if any? Can you explain?

I have a vague sense that 1 might be less acceptable than the others, possibly because "why" seems redundant after "the reason". I'd also want to correct 3 to "That's" instead of "That is".

That said, it took me a minute to figure out what you were asking about, so i'd say they're all fine to me.

All three sound perfectly natural to me.

All are fine. 3 is shortest, so it's probably the best. I suspect I might produce #2 or #3, but not produce #1, although it sounds fine.

It makes me think of this, although the part of speech is different:

Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.

They're all cool, but 3 is the one I prefer because it gets the same point across with less words.

All are fine. 2 is a bit formal, or it could be in response to the question "what's the reason we keep that door closed" followed by an action which explains it. 1 I feel would be likely in a list of doors and why they're kept closed.

They're all fine; prefer 3, then 2, slight disprefernce for 1 due to the redundant (but not ungrammatical) "reason why" of one. My choice seems to be guided by a liking for brevity. Not sure which one I'd actually say in a real situation where that was the appropriate comment.

While they all sound right to me, they have different intonations (it feels), so I'd say them in different cases. Utterance 3 would probably only come after a physical demonstration of the reason, while number 1 would be more likely to appear in casual speech after an explanation (with a variance between that and number 2, preference for the first one).

They're all perfectly acceptable to me, though the first one could be criticized in formal writing since "the reason why" constitutes a pleonasm (i.e. an unnecessary redundancy), but in speech it would be fine. Conversely, I feel the second one would be more likely used in formal writing than in speech. The third one works all around.

Change "that door" to "the door" if there is no context. Saying "that door" implies there was a whole story about a series of doors, each with their own complicated lore informing us why it isn't opened. And as others have stated, "that's" would work better in some contexts, especially for two and three.

Number one sounds like it's deliberately drawn out, like the last sentence of a long story "And that, Children, is the reason why Mister Toad decided to eat his vegetables."

Number two sounds like it's the answer to a question.

Number three is the most natural in conversation, but it's impossible to say for sure without context.