A couple of things.
One, what are some languages that have that distinction? Just a list- I'm thinking of including it in my next conlang and I'd like to look at their grammars.
Two, are there any languages that make this distinction more than two ways, thus allowing the speaker to mark three different third-person referents differently?
Proximate/Obviative question
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- Avisaru
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Re: Proximate/Obviative question
do you mean in verbal persons specifically?
otherwise english: this, that
otherwise english: this, that
Re: Proximate/Obviative question
Sorry, should have specified. Yes, I mean in verbal conjugation.
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- Avisaru
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:41 am
- Location: NY, USA
Re: Proximate/Obviative question
Tlingit has proximate, neutral, obviative: all 3 in possessive pronouns, but obviate absolutive and proximate ergative can't occur for some reason, and neutral abs/erg is null ("expected").
Hopefully some other Dene-Yeniseian languages would be similar
Hopefully some other Dene-Yeniseian languages would be similar
Re: Proximate/Obviative question
Algonquian languages in general have proximative-obviative marking on verbs and other things.
"The sable is empty, and his Norse is gone!" -- kathrynhr
Re: Proximate/Obviative question
Cree makes this distinction, though the obviate is more obvious than the proximate, as it tags on as a bound morpheme (-a, -wa), whereas the proximate is either assumed to be unmarked or is explicitly marked by demonstrative pronouns, seen below.
Here, the plural and singular forms are regrouped under the proximate umbrella, by opposition to the obviate, which makes no distinction between animate, inanimate, singular or plural (other varieties like Southern East Cree do). It should also not be confused with the notion of spatial reference, since that distinction also exists in demonstratives.
In terms of pronominal morphemes in verbal constructions, then, besides the regular ones and the obviate, there's also an inclusive/exclusive distinction on the first-person plural, and a very minor distinction exists between the pronominal prefixes for regular conjugations and the possessive paradigm. I believe some other languages like to complicate all of this with an added distinction between singular, dual and plural (+inc/excl, etc.).
Code: Select all
Plains Cree
(proximate singular)
animate inanimate
proximal awa ôma
medial ana anima
distal nâha nêma
(proximate plural)
animate inanimate
proximal ôki ôhi
medial aniki anihi
distal nêki nêhi
(obviative)
proximal ôhi
medial anihi
distal nêhi
In terms of pronominal morphemes in verbal constructions, then, besides the regular ones and the obviate, there's also an inclusive/exclusive distinction on the first-person plural, and a very minor distinction exists between the pronominal prefixes for regular conjugations and the possessive paradigm. I believe some other languages like to complicate all of this with an added distinction between singular, dual and plural (+inc/excl, etc.).
Chances are it's Ryukyuan (Resources).