zompist bboard

Ueno-eki-wa doko desu-ka?

I'm learning Japanese out of curiosity, using the Pimsleur audio course. I'm only on lesson 4 of Course A (30 lessons of 30 minutes each) with three courses in all (making 90 lessons). It's hard! I never realized how much cognates make things easier. With Spanish I only had to listen to each lesson once (and occasionally twice) before progressing, but with Japanese I have to listen to the lessons twice or even thrice. (There’s an old word for you.)

At least once I finish the Pimsleur courses I will have enough of a basis to go through a beginning Japanese textbook without such a steep learning curve.

hai? ueno ni aru ne.

Shm Jay wrote: It's hard! I never realized how much cognates make things easier.

It depends on the language, I think. With some languages, remembering vocab just seems to come naturally, even though they're all completely alien. But with others, it seems that nothing can keep the words from just bouncing off of and away from my brain.

Bob Johnson wrote:hai? ueno ni aru ne.

All I recognize from this is: Yes Ueno * * isn't it? I'm only on lesson 4, and Pimsleur tends to move slowly because it’s all oral and there is a lot of repetition.

Nihongo-ga *sukoshi* wakarimasu. Demo mada jozu ja arimasen. I otenki desu-ne?

Shm Jay wrote:Nihongo-ga *sukoshi* wakarimasu. Demo mada jouzu ja arimasen. Ii otenki desu-ne?

this is the problem with audio-only, you miss the long vowels if you can't already hear them

Shm Jay wrote:*sukoshi*

Since you complained about the lack of cognates, you should know that you just found one!

I thought Japanese was a language isolate. What on earth would be the cognate of sukoshi, unless we’re talking about Okinawan or something like that?

Isn't that just a borrowing though? Or are borrowings some kind of cognates?

上野駅はあそこですよ：http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Ueno+St ... n&t=m&z=15

あそこに行きませんでしたよ。行きたいね！

Shm Jay wrote:I thought Japanese was a language isolate. What on earth would be the cognate of sukoshi, unless we’re talking about Okinawan or something like that?

Skoosh. (And Serafin is right that it's a borrowing. I was just using "cognate" informally as a word related to one you'd know.)

But it’s not a word I know.

I've never to my knowledge heard "skosh" used as an English word, and I don't think I would've connected it to 少し if I had.

con quesa wrote:I've never to my knowledge heard "skosh" used as an English word, and I don't think I would've connected it to 少し if I had.

I think it's more prevalent in California than elsewhere. Also "a skosh" is the normal pattern, following the templates for "a little".

Ive heard it, just once as a spoken word, but she said it as though it was common. Though one could easily undetrstand "Just a skosh bigger" from context even if you'd never heard it before.

I've heard it, from middle-aged people in suburban Maryland. I didn't really think it was that uncommon, although it does sound grating to me, like one of those words that only soccer moms would ever use.

My grandpa uses "skosh" all the time, but I don't think I've known anyone else to say it.

I've used it, I've heard other people use it. But its not extremely common.

finlay wrote:上野駅はあそこですよ：http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Ueno+St ... n&t=m&z=15

あそこに行きませんでしたよ。行きたいね！

Since you live in Tokyo you're going to want to use まだ行っていません for this, to say, "I haven't been yet." 行きませんでした means, "I didn't go," and sounds like it's all over and done with and you are no longer able to go. Also, your use of よ in this case sort of makes it sound as though you are correcting someone's false impression. I would say it's not necessary in this case. Also don't forget to choose one level of politeness and stick with it! Oh, also, you'll probably want to use ここ rather than あそこ for that link. The use of よ in the link is appropriate though, since you are giving people information they clearly do not know.

I mean these only as constructive comments since I know you are studying, so I hope I am not offending you with these corrections.

I'm kind of studying half-heartedly and as needed rather than actually sitting down and trying to learn it, but yeah, comments are welcome. After all, pretty much the only reason i bother on here is in the hope that someone might come along and correct me (as long as it's not excessive!). As for politeness, it's a bit fucking annoying that basically in beginners' japanese courses they only teach you the desu/masu forms, but if you look up grammar on the internet or in linguistic publications, you only find the regular forms of the verbs.... So i've kind of ended up with a mish mash of grammar that I know, some of which is polite and some not

Seeing as the borrowing of "skoosh" dates to the occupation/Korean war period (as with several others), it makes sense that it's more common among speakers of that generation. Ans, as most posters here are several generations removed, it's not surprising that it either seems outdated, is associated with an older generation, or is unfamiliar.

I was going to mention another one, bimbo, but it seems I was taken in by a folk etymology of it. According to said folk etymology, bimbo came from the Japanese word "bimbo" (poor), via destitute Japanese women prostituting themselves to GIs, claiming poverty. Seems it's actrually from Italian.

Daistallia wrote:I was going to mention another one, bimbo, but it seems I was taken in by a folk etymology of it. According to said folk etymology, bimbo came from the Japanese word "bimbo" (poor), via destitute Japanese women prostituting themselves to GIs, claiming poverty. Seems it's actrually from Italian.

It's a curious word in any case, being a contraction of bambino "little boy" that in English is perversely applied to females.

treskro wrote:http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sukoshi+cognate

Hilariously, the top Google result for "sukoshi cognate" is this thread. I've known Japanese for years and never connected "sukoshi" with "skosh".

By far, the hardest problem with Japanese is picking up vocab. But I think that if you continue with it, you'll find that the internal logic of Japanese is simple, regular, and pretty easy to understand. Many adjectives act like verbs, the syntax of clauses is very regular and easy to understand, morphology is verb simple.

EDIT
I thought "typhoon" was borrowed from Japanese taifuu, but etymonline.com tells me that it's just a happy coincidence.

Gojera wrote:I thought "typhoon" was borrowed from Japanese

tycoon

heh - if this keeps up, I'm going to have to start questioning the etymologies of lots of words I thought I knew.