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Langs w dental, alveolar, & palato-alveolar stop phonemes
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:42 pm
by TomHChappell
Long ago, somebody, either on the ZBB or on CONLANG-L, told me that there was no natural language that had phonemes at all three of the following points-of-articulation -- dental, alveolar, and palato-alveolar -- in any manner-of-articulation other than fricatives and affricates.
That turns out not to be true.
Yolngu,
Arrernte,
Nunggubuyu,
Yanyuwa, and
Ngiyambaa, all have voiceless stops/plosives at all three points of articulation; that is, they all have the phonemes / t̪ t t̠ / (that is, / t_d t t_- / in Z-SAMPA). In fact the first four languages -- Yolngu, Arrernte, Nunggubuyu, and Yanyuwa -- also have a retroflex voiceless stop; they have the phonemes / t̪ t t̠ ʈ / (that is, / t_d t t_- t` / in Z-SAMPA).
(Btw
Garawa has voiceless stops at the alveolar, palato-alveolar, retroflex, and palatal PoAs; / t t̠ ʈ c / or / t t_- t` c / in Z-SAMPA.)
Re: Langs w dental, alveolar, & palato-alveolar stop phoneme
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:51 pm
by 2+3 clusivity
Similar, you might also check out Malayalam and several other Dravidian languages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayalam_language.
Malayalam has stops and nasals at dental, aleovelar, retroflex (Subapical Palatal) and palatal.
Toda deserves an honorable mention too for being fun:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toda_language.
Coronals are like pokemon, gotta catch 'em all. Also, take that Eurocentric IPA (without diacritics).
Re: Langs w dental, alveolar, & palato-alveolar stop phoneme
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:14 pm
by TomHChappell
2+3 clusivity wrote:Similarly, you might also check out Malayalam and several other Dravidian languages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayalam_language..
Malayalam has stops and nasals at dental, aleovelar, retroflex (Subapical Palatal) and palatal.
Thanks for the information, the suggestions, and the links.
Like, wow, man!
Re: Langs w dental, alveolar, & palato-alveolar stop phoneme
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:00 pm
by ----
Yeli Dnye may be notable in respect to this, because while it apparently only distinguishes dental and alveolar as distinct POAs, palatalization is a prominent feature and /t̠ʲ/ may be realized as /tɕ/.
Re: Langs w dental, alveolar, & palato-alveolar stop phoneme
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:53 pm
by WeepingElf
Of course, it was the Lemurians who started collecting coronal stops like this, and their descendants took them to India and Australia when Lemuria sank
Re: Langs w dental, alveolar, & palato-alveolar stop phoneme
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:12 pm
by 2+3 clusivity
hmm... yeah. Some of the Australian and Dravidian languages (in the non-sanskrit borrowings) have nice chance phonological similarities: typically no voicing contrast, few sibilants, large numbers of stop series, often no glottal consonants . . .
Come to think of it. I am surprised some crack pot hasn't connected them yet linguistically via a sunken continent or rogue contingent of Alexander the Great's army.
Also don't let this monster escape your attention:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanyuwa_language. Throw some palatalization on that bad boy and, MAN, you'd be cooking.
Re: Langs w dental, alveolar, & palato-alveolar stop phoneme
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:54 pm
by Pabappa
I think some iterationsof the lemuria theory saythe lsnguagrs are related
Re: Langs w dental, alveolar, & palato-alveolar stop phoneme
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:56 am
by AnTeallach
TomHChappell wrote:Long ago, somebody, either on the ZBB or on CONLANG-L, told me that there was no natural language that had phonemes at all three of the following points-of-articulation -- dental, alveolar, and palato-alveolar -- in any manner-of-articulation other than fricatives and affricates.
That turns out not to be true.
Yolngu,
Arrernte,
Nunggubuyu,
Yanyuwa, and
Ngiyambaa, all have voiceless stops/plosives at all three points of articulation; that is, they all have the phonemes / t̪ t t̠ / (that is, / t_d t t_- / in Z-SAMPA). In fact the first four languages -- Yolngu, Arrernte, Nunggubuyu, and Yanyuwa -- also have a retroflex voiceless stop; they have the phonemes / t̪ t t̠ ʈ / (that is, / t_d t t_- t` / in Z-SAMPA).
(Btw
Garawa has voiceless stops at the alveolar, palato-alveolar, retroflex, and palatal PoAs; / t t̠ ʈ c / or / t t_- t` c / in Z-SAMPA.)
This is pretty normal for Australian languages, I believe.
Away from Australian and Dravidian languages, apparently the Fering dialect of North Frisian used to have something similar: it had contrasting alveolar and dental stops and also palatalised stops with a "postalveolar/palatal place of articulation". The alveolar/dental contrast has been lost, though. (
Source.)
Re: Langs w dental, alveolar, & palato-alveolar stop phoneme
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:14 pm
by 2+3 clusivity
My intention is not to go thread grave digging, but I recently found this phonology for a cool language outside of south Asia/Australia and thought it should be shared.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mapudungun (dental (interdental?), alveolar, post-alveolar, retroflex)
The wiki is unclear over whether the dental series is interdental or dental, but I've seen it noted as dental also in T. E. Payne's Describing Morphosyntax at pp. 257-58. The wiki source states that there is consonant harmony--i guess--in the dental v. alveolar series. Describing Morphosyntax gives a good example of such an alternation at 258 showing variations between a speaker's "mood" or attitude as encoded in the verb.