Some questions about Dutch

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Particles the Greek
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Some questions about Dutch

Post by Particles the Greek »

I remember in a Dutch phrase-book that there were some alternatives for common verbs:

- "jij hebt" and "jij heeft"
- "U hebt" and "U heeft"
- "U is" and "U bent"

Is there any difference in meaning or connotation here?
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Re: Some questions about Dutch

Post by merijn »

"U is" is archaic and not in common use anymore. "Jij heeft" is incorrect, and as far as I know incorrect for any variant of Dutch. As for "u hebt"/"u heeft", I don't perceive a difference, and both members of the pair sound equally well. There has been some research on this difference, where IIRC they found out that one form was preferred by men and the other by women, and I vaguely recalled reading something that the "hebt" form is more used when you want to state solidarity with the hearer, and "heeft" when there is more distance, but this doesn't come from intuitions of speakers of Dutch, but from analysis of corpora.

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Re: Some questions about Dutch

Post by Grunnen »

I don't know anything about research into this topic, but I agree with Merijn. I would add to his comment, that "u is" sounds very very dated to me. I don't think I ever heard it in spontaneous speach. But maybe there are varieties of the language in which this construction is still in use.
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Re: Some questions about Dutch

Post by Drydic »

Grunnen wrote:I don't know anything about research into this topic, but I agree with Merijn. I would add to his comment, that "u is" sounds very very dated to me. I don't think I ever heard it in spontaneous speach. But maybe there are varieties of the language in which this construction is still in use.
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Re: Some questions about Dutch

Post by Grunnen »

Drydic wrote:
Grunnen wrote:I don't know anything about research into this topic, but I agree with Merijn. I would add to his comment, that "u is" sounds very very dated to me. I don't think I ever heard it in spontaneous speach. But maybe there are varieties of the language in which this construction is still in use.
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Re: Some questions about Dutch

Post by Sleinad Flar »

Drydic is alluding to biblical use of archaic constructions.

Typically, "u is" isn't even used there. However it is often used in Dutch forums, often jokingly.
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Re: Some questions about Dutch

Post by Grunnen »

Sleinad Flar wrote:Drydic is alluding to biblical use of archaic constructions.

Typically, "u is" isn't even used there. However it is often used in Dutch forums, often jokingly.
Ah like that. I don't frequent Dutch forums so I wasn't aware of that usage.
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Re: Some questions about Dutch

Post by Nortaneous »

"u is" is a highly archaic form in dutch, further proving that the monks made it just to fuck with english speakers
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Re: Some questions about Dutch

Post by Dē Graut Bʉr »

Did that phrasebook seriously say that "jij heeft" is possible? "U is" already sounds awful to me, but having read that above (and considering "u heeft") I can accept that.

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Re: Some questions about Dutch

Post by Particles the Greek »

Dē Graut Bʉr wrote:Did that phrasebook seriously say that "jij heeft" is possible?
Ik herinne me niet; it was lang tijd geleden.
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Re: Some questions about Dutch

Post by sirdanilot »

I have never heard of 'u is', that sounds ridiculous to me. Same goes for 'jij heeft'.

I see 'u heeft' as a more formal form of 'u hebt', though only marginally so. The problem with 'u hebt' is that it is often pronounced as the dialectal 'u heb' (t-deletion is a common thing in Dutch), which is considered informal and sloppy. If you clearly say the 't' it's okay though. Remember that 'u' is the polite 2SG pronoun, so being formal is important, otherwise you might as well just say 'je/jij'.

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Re: Some questions about Dutch

Post by Io »

Orsmaal-Gussenhoven dialect phonology

I'm most curious about this bit:

— /p, t, tʲ, k, kʲ, v, z/ may be affricated to [p͡ɸ, t͡s, t͡sʲ, k͡x, k͡xʲ, b͡v, d͡z]. Peters (2010) does not specify the environment(s) in which the affrication of /v/ and /z/ takes place. In case of stops, it occurs in pre-pausal position.

Any chance there would be sound bites where I can hear those?

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