"Some/this man came up to me and said..."
"Some/this man came up to me and said..."
At least in the north of England, 'this' and 'some' are used to introduce indefinite (and referential, in the case of 'this') singular people into a narrative - "I was just standing there minding my own business and then this/some woman walked up to me and said...."
Compared to 'a' (to me, at least), 'some' emphasises the unknown, random, unconnected-to-you nature of the referent, whereas 'this' also emphasises that the person is about to become important to the narrative - a new topic, who will be referred to again. ('Some' can be used for persons who do not become topical - "How did you find it?" "Oh, some woman handed it in at the police station." - whereas 'this' cannot).
Do the rest of you have this usage in your dialects?
How do other natlangs mark the introduction of a noun which will become a new topic that will subsequently be referred to/central to the discourse, compared to a 'background character'?
Compared to 'a' (to me, at least), 'some' emphasises the unknown, random, unconnected-to-you nature of the referent, whereas 'this' also emphasises that the person is about to become important to the narrative - a new topic, who will be referred to again. ('Some' can be used for persons who do not become topical - "How did you find it?" "Oh, some woman handed it in at the police station." - whereas 'this' cannot).
Do the rest of you have this usage in your dialects?
How do other natlangs mark the introduction of a noun which will become a new topic that will subsequently be referred to/central to the discourse, compared to a 'background character'?
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
General/Western American reporting in with an affirmative about the "this" and "some" usages.
"I ran into this guy, and he <blah blah blah>"
"Some dude was in the hallway, dunno what he's up to"
"I ran into this guy, and he <blah blah blah>"
"Some dude was in the hallway, dunno what he's up to"
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
Colonel Cúlro acknowledging General American's prompt report!
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
Yep, exactly as you describe in Australian English too ... although I'd say it's only among young people. My parents would almost certainly not speak this way.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
It is definitely in a less formal register. With those whom I felt I had to act with decorum, I'd more likely use "There was a man who...".
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
And then there's "randomer", although I've heard "some randomer" on occasion.Sakir wrote:It is definitely in a less formal register. With those whom I felt I had to act with decorum, I'd more likely use "There was a man who...".
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
In Australian English, the noun is "some random". Eg. Every time we go out, Katie always gets with randoms.sangi39 wrote:And then there's "randomer", although I've heard "some randomer" on occasion.Sakir wrote:It is definitely in a less formal register. With those whom I felt I had to act with decorum, I'd more likely use "There was a man who...".
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
SE England, I have this usage too.
I'm speculating here (one of those vague, doubtful feelings like it could be, but can't be justified), but there might be a difference in usage between "some" and "this".
"Some" is more immediate. "Some woman's just bumped into me"
"This" is a bit more distant. "This woman bumped into me the other day."
"Some woman bumped into me the other day." (feels a bit weird to say that)
"This woman's just bumped into me." ("this" in this case feels like a demonstrative, like the woman's next to you or something)
Like I say, it's a vague feeling. Got nothing to back it up with, except "feelings", and vague ones at that.
I'm speculating here (one of those vague, doubtful feelings like it could be, but can't be justified), but there might be a difference in usage between "some" and "this".
"Some" is more immediate. "Some woman's just bumped into me"
"This" is a bit more distant. "This woman bumped into me the other day."
"Some woman bumped into me the other day." (feels a bit weird to say that)
"This woman's just bumped into me." ("this" in this case feels like a demonstrative, like the woman's next to you or something)
Like I say, it's a vague feeling. Got nothing to back it up with, except "feelings", and vague ones at that.
It was about time I changed this.
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
My own accent is General American/Western, but I've heard it used by people with Southern, New England, and New York accents as well.
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
This seems to be so common that maybe it would be better to ask which dialects don't have it in the colloquial register?
(FWIW, back when I were a lad, the accepted phrase was "Random McRandom". I haven't noticed kids around here saying this any more.)
(FWIW, back when I were a lad, the accepted phrase was "Random McRandom". I haven't noticed kids around here saying this any more.)
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)
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Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
This is definitely a thing in my dialect, too.
I also get the sense that "some," when used in such a way, is slightly pejorative, and is more often used when the speaker has been affronted in some way by the person being discussed---"I was sitting on the bus and some guy started talking to me" gives me a very definite sense of irritation which is not found in the equivalent "I was sitting on the bus and this guy started talking to me."
I also get the sense that "some," when used in such a way, is slightly pejorative, and is more often used when the speaker has been affronted in some way by the person being discussed---"I was sitting on the bus and some guy started talking to me" gives me a very definite sense of irritation which is not found in the equivalent "I was sitting on the bus and this guy started talking to me."
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
Thanks, I figured it was quite widespread but wanted to check.
What about other natlang strategies (not necessarily so informal) for marking new interlopers as being discourse salient?
What about other natlang strategies (not necessarily so informal) for marking new interlopers as being discourse salient?
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
Ah yes, the wonderful 3rd person pronoun "buddy"Kereb wrote:"buddy".
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Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
This paper is pretty interesting, on "dieser" in German. That German speakers feel free to comment on it.
I did have a bizarrely similar (to the original poster's) accident about four years ago, in which I slipped over a cookie and somehow twisted my ankle so far that it broke
Aeetlrcreejl > Kicgan Vekei > me /ne.ses.tso.sats/What kind of cookie?
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
I don't think I've ever heard that. In Australia, we say old mate (stressed like a compound, not adjective + noun). Irish people I've known say your man for a man and your one for a woman.clawgrip wrote:Ah yes, the wonderful 3rd person pronoun "buddy"Kereb wrote:"buddy".
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
Examples:
"Buddy just told me I can't park my car here."
'I always see shitheads like that at bank parking lots too.
LOL, This 1 time, buddy comes up to me, "Hey, wanna buy some speakers?"
Me: "No"
Buddy:"well you got any weed then?"
Me:"fuckoff"'
Even better is "buddy over here"
"Can I pls have some chill pills so buddy over here doesn't pass me his sickness?"
"So buddy over here complains about people disappearing & hiding & he did the EXACT same thing to me."
"Buddy over here almost eats the floor Vine Video"
Keep in mind that this is not "my buddy (over here)". If you include "my" it takes on a completely different meaning, since "buddy (over here)" is somewhat pejorative as its basic meaning, but "my buddy (over here)" is sincere as its basic meaning.
"Buddy just told me I can't park my car here."
'I always see shitheads like that at bank parking lots too.
LOL, This 1 time, buddy comes up to me, "Hey, wanna buy some speakers?"
Me: "No"
Buddy:"well you got any weed then?"
Me:"fuckoff"'
Even better is "buddy over here"
"Can I pls have some chill pills so buddy over here doesn't pass me his sickness?"
"So buddy over here complains about people disappearing & hiding & he did the EXACT same thing to me."
"Buddy over here almost eats the floor Vine Video"
Keep in mind that this is not "my buddy (over here)". If you include "my" it takes on a completely different meaning, since "buddy (over here)" is somewhat pejorative as its basic meaning, but "my buddy (over here)" is sincere as its basic meaning.
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
Are you Canadian, clawgrip?
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
Yes. I've heard it mentioned before that this is a Canadian thing.
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
I'm American and I'd say that "buddy" has picked up enough pejorative meaning that I find it jarring when I hear it used sincerely, except among children.clawgrip wrote:Yes. I've heard it mentioned before that this is a Canadian thing.
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
I have a friend who calls me buddy sincerely. I think what cromulant was getting at though is its use not as an epithet but its use as a kind of pronoun or nickname.
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
I know. What I was saying was that usage has become so dominant, at least in my circle, that I find other, non-pejorative uses of "buddy," to be surprising or somewhat old-fashioned sounding (again, except when used by children). Perhaps that's just my particular circle; I don't know.
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
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Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
As mentioned above, in Ireland and parts of Scotland we have the expression 'yer man' and 'yer one' for 'this man'/'this woman'.
I've also met some people who have the imaginative capability to produce a nickname for pretty much every situation like this, and use it in the same way as 'buddy' is used above: e.g. 'King Kong came up to me and said.. (for a large and ape-like man)', 'Adolf started kicking off about immigrants' (for an extremely racist person) etc. If you are good at it, its quite a good way of conveying your subject in a way that reminisces your audience of the point you are trying to convey. Cf. any Scottish or Cockney comedian for this, Frankie Boyle especially makes an art form out of it. I'm sure its common in every language to be honest but I have the impression its most common among the British working class.
I've also met some people who have the imaginative capability to produce a nickname for pretty much every situation like this, and use it in the same way as 'buddy' is used above: e.g. 'King Kong came up to me and said.. (for a large and ape-like man)', 'Adolf started kicking off about immigrants' (for an extremely racist person) etc. If you are good at it, its quite a good way of conveying your subject in a way that reminisces your audience of the point you are trying to convey. Cf. any Scottish or Cockney comedian for this, Frankie Boyle especially makes an art form out of it. I'm sure its common in every language to be honest but I have the impression its most common among the British working class.
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Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
I always assumed "some guy" or "some woman" was just a gender-specified version of "somebody" or "someone"; those are pretty universal terms across English dialects, aren't they? Maybe a bit perjorative, but "that woman", "that man", "those people" are also considered mildly perjorative in my dialect.(northeastern US, specifically Erie PA)
You wouldn't hear "random" as a noun around here, but you would certainly hear "some random guy". As a faux name you would hear "J. Random [profession/quality]" E.g. "J. Random Jokester here says that..." The J. is from the police faux name "John Doe/Jane Doe", as far as I know. The only other similar faux name I've heard is "[quality] Mc[profession/quality]pants" E.g. "Well aren't you a Clever McSmartypants?"
You wouldn't hear "random" as a noun around here, but you would certainly hear "some random guy". As a faux name you would hear "J. Random [profession/quality]" E.g. "J. Random Jokester here says that..." The J. is from the police faux name "John Doe/Jane Doe", as far as I know. The only other similar faux name I've heard is "[quality] Mc[profession/quality]pants" E.g. "Well aren't you a Clever McSmartypants?"
Re: "Some/this man came up to me and said..."
In Finnish English "t." or "regards" is used similarly.
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