zompist bboard

At least in the north of England, 'this' and 'some' are used to introduce indefinite (and referential, in the case of 'this') singular people into a narrative - "I was just standing there minding my own business and then this/some woman walked up to me and said...."

Compared to 'a' (to me, at least), 'some' emphasises the unknown, random, unconnected-to-you nature of the referent, whereas 'this' also emphasises that the person is about to become important to the narrative - a new topic, who will be referred to again. ('Some' can be used for persons who do not become topical - "How did you find it?" "Oh, some woman handed it in at the police station." - whereas 'this' cannot).

Do the rest of you have this usage in your dialects?

How do other natlangs mark the introduction of a noun which will become a new topic that will subsequently be referred to/central to the discourse, compared to a 'background character'?

General/Western American reporting in with an affirmative about the "this" and "some" usages.

"I ran into this guy, and he <blah blah blah>"
"Some dude was in the hallway, dunno what he's up to"

Colonel Cúlro acknowledging General American's prompt report!

Yep, exactly as you describe in Australian English too ... although I'd say it's only among young people. My parents would almost certainly not speak this way.

It is definitely in a less formal register. With those whom I felt I had to act with decorum, I'd more likely use "There was a man who...".

Sakir wrote:It is definitely in a less formal register. With those whom I felt I had to act with decorum, I'd more likely use "There was a man who...".

And then there's "randomer", although I've heard "some randomer" on occasion.

sangi39 wrote:

Sakir wrote:It is definitely in a less formal register. With those whom I felt I had to act with decorum, I'd more likely use "There was a man who...".

And then there's "randomer", although I've heard "some randomer" on occasion.

In Australian English, the noun is "some random". Eg. Every time we go out, Katie always gets with randoms.

SE England, I have this usage too.

I'm speculating here (one of those vague, doubtful feelings like it could be, but can't be justified), but there might be a difference in usage between "some" and "this".
"Some" is more immediate. "Some woman's just bumped into me"
"This" is a bit more distant. "This woman bumped into me the other day."

"Some woman bumped into me the other day." (feels a bit weird to say that)
"This woman's just bumped into me." ("this" in this case feels like a demonstrative, like the woman's next to you or something)

Like I say, it's a vague feeling. Got nothing to back it up with, except "feelings", and vague ones at that.

My own accent is General American/Western, but I've heard it used by people with Southern, New England, and New York accents as well.

This seems to be so common that maybe it would be better to ask which dialects don't have it in the colloquial register?

(FWIW, back when I were a lad, the accepted phrase was "Random McRandom". I haven't noticed kids around here saying this any more.)

"buddy".

This is definitely a thing in my dialect, too.

I also get the sense that "some," when used in such a way, is slightly pejorative, and is more often used when the speaker has been affronted in some way by the person being discussed---"I was sitting on the bus and some guy started talking to me" gives me a very definite sense of irritation which is not found in the equivalent "I was sitting on the bus and this guy started talking to me."

Thanks, I figured it was quite widespread but wanted to check.

What about other natlang strategies (not necessarily so informal) for marking new interlopers as being discourse salient?

Kereb wrote:"buddy".

Ah yes, the wonderful 3rd person pronoun "buddy"

This paper is pretty interesting, on "dieser" in German. That German speakers feel free to comment on it.

clawgrip wrote:

Kereb wrote:"buddy".

Ah yes, the wonderful 3rd person pronoun "buddy"

I don't think I've ever heard that. In Australia, we say old mate (stressed like a compound, not adjective + noun). Irish people I've known say your man for a man and your one for a woman.

Examples:

"Buddy just told me I can't park my car here."


'I always see shitheads like that at bank parking lots too.

LOL, This 1 time, buddy comes up to me, "Hey, wanna buy some speakers?"
Me: "No"
Buddy:"well you got any weed then?"
Me:"fuckoff"'


Even better is "buddy over here"

"Can I pls have some chill pills so buddy over here doesn't pass me his sickness?"
"So buddy over here complains about people disappearing & hiding & he did the EXACT same thing to me."
"Buddy over here almost eats the floor Vine Video"

Keep in mind that this is not "my buddy (over here)". If you include "my" it takes on a completely different meaning, since "buddy (over here)" is somewhat pejorative as its basic meaning, but "my buddy (over here)" is sincere as its basic meaning.

Are you Canadian, clawgrip?

Yes. I've heard it mentioned before that this is a Canadian thing.

clawgrip wrote:Yes. I've heard it mentioned before that this is a Canadian thing.

I'm American and I'd say that "buddy" has picked up enough pejorative meaning that I find it jarring when I hear it used sincerely, except among children.

I have a friend who calls me buddy sincerely. I think what cromulant was getting at though is its use not as an epithet but its use as a kind of pronoun or nickname.

I know. What I was saying was that usage has become so dominant, at least in my circle, that I find other, non-pejorative uses of "buddy," to be surprising or somewhat old-fashioned sounding (again, except when used by children). Perhaps that's just my particular circle; I don't know.

As mentioned above, in Ireland and parts of Scotland we have the expression 'yer man' and 'yer one' for 'this man'/'this woman'.

I've also met some people who have the imaginative capability to produce a nickname for pretty much every situation like this, and use it in the same way as 'buddy' is used above: e.g. 'King Kong came up to me and said.. (for a large and ape-like man)', 'Adolf started kicking off about immigrants' (for an extremely racist person) etc. If you are good at it, its quite a good way of conveying your subject in a way that reminisces your audience of the point you are trying to convey. Cf. any Scottish or Cockney comedian for this, Frankie Boyle especially makes an art form out of it. I'm sure its common in every language to be honest but I have the impression its most common among the British working class.

I always assumed "some guy" or "some woman" was just a gender-specified version of "somebody" or "someone"; those are pretty universal terms across English dialects, aren't they? Maybe a bit perjorative, but "that woman", "that man", "those people" are also considered mildly perjorative in my dialect.(northeastern US, specifically Erie PA)

You wouldn't hear "random" as a noun around here, but you would certainly hear "some random guy". As a faux name you would hear "J. Random [profession/quality]" E.g. "J. Random Jokester here says that..." The J. is from the police faux name "John Doe/Jane Doe", as far as I know. The only other similar faux name I've heard is "[quality] Mc[profession/quality]pants" E.g. "Well aren't you a Clever McSmartypants?"

In Finnish English "t." or "regards" is used similarly.