Question about Mallorcan Catalan
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Question about Mallorcan Catalan
I have in front of me a tile from the village of Valdemossa bearing an image from the life of the patron saint and the text "Santa Catalina Thomas pregau per nosaltres". What exactly is "pregau"? Obviously it's a form of "pregar", but none of my sources can tell me which one.
Non fidendus est crocodilus quis posteriorem dentem acerbum conquetur.
Re: Question about Mallorcan Catalan
Second person plural of the present indicative, used as an imperative.
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)
Re: Question about Mallorcan Catalan
I.e., the equivalent of Standard Catalan pregueu.Dewrad wrote:Second person plural of the present indicative, used as an imperative.
Use of vós as a polite form of address comparable to French vous used to be widespread in Catalan.
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Re: Question about Mallorcan Catalan
I thought it might have been a reflex of the preterite precavit... anyway, thanks for plugging an annoying gap in my knowledge
Non fidendus est crocodilus quis posteriorem dentem acerbum conquetur.
Re: Question about Mallorcan Catalan
On account of being fucked up, Catalan changes mediaeval word-final [ts] into [w]. So it's a regular reflex of *precātis.araceli wrote:I thought it might have been a reflex of the preterite precavit... anyway, thanks for plugging an annoying gap in my knowledge
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)
Re: Question about Mallorcan Catalan
AFAIK, that yields pregà in all varieties (not that it sees much use these days).araceli wrote:I thought it might have been a reflex of the preterite precavit...
Re: Question about Mallorcan Catalan
That's quite an unusual sound change. Are there any attested intermediate steps?Dewrad wrote:On account of being fucked up, Catalan changes mediaeval word-final [ts] into [w]. So it's a regular reflex of *precātis.
Re: Question about Mallorcan Catalan
Was it [ts], Dewrad, or was it [dz]? Because we also have nonfinal examples like raó < RATIONE(M) and treure < TRACERE where the segment was definitely voiced. I could be wrong (it's been a while since I read up on these things), but I thought final devoicing postdated loss of /dz/.
Re: Question about Mallorcan Catalan
On reflection, it was most likely something like [dz]: final devoicing occured independently in both Occitan and Catalan and must have postdated the [dz] > [w] change in Catalan.
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)
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Re: Question about Mallorcan Catalan
didn't dz merge with ð before > w
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: Question about Mallorcan Catalan
My conlang has that, but I think Catalan has more like d > ð > d > t actually. (vert, ciutat, parlat?)
Also treure is analogized with treu from *tracit (traz), linguoboy, afaik, so not a real good example: middle voiced -z- tended to ellide, like in fer or dir (fazer, dizer).
Also treure is analogized with treu from *tracit (traz), linguoboy, afaik, so not a real good example: middle voiced -z- tended to ellide, like in fer or dir (fazer, dizer).
Re: Question about Mallorcan Catalan
Wikipedia wrote:Unusual development of early /(d)z/, resulting from merger of Proto-Western-Romance /ð/ (from intervocalic -d-) and /dz/ (from intervocalic -ty-, -c(e)-, -c(i)-); see note above about a similar merger in Occitan. In early Old Catalan, became /w/ finally or before a consonant, remained as /(d)z/ between vowels. In later Old Catalan, /(d)z/ lost between vowels:
pedem 'foot' → peu
crucem 'cross' → creu, crēdit 'he believes' → (ell) creu
Verbs in second-person plural ending in -tis: mirātis 'you (pl.) look' → *miratz → mirau → mireu/mirau
ratiōnem 'reason' → *razó → raó
vicīnum 'neighbor' → *vezí → veí
recipere 'to receive' → *rezebre → rebre
Yeah, upon second thought maybe simply d > t finally and both dh and dz > w finally (final dh from earlier intervocal -d-).Common features Gallo-Romance languages
Loss of final unstressed vowels except -a (mūrum 'wall' → *muro → mur, flōrem 'flower' → flor); cf. the maintenance of all final vowels except -e in Spanish and Portuguese, e.g. muro but flor; Italo-Romance maintains all final vowels (Italian muro, fiore). The resulting final voiced obstruents undergo devoicing: frigidvs ('cold') → fred [ˈfɾɛt] or [ˈfɾet].