Questions not about German Thread

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Vijay
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Re: Questions not about German Thread

Post by Vijay »

I don't know Irish, either, but after looking up those words in Wiktionary, I can at least guess that glac go réidh é probably means 'take it easy'.

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Salmoneus
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Re: Questions not about German Thread

Post by Salmoneus »

linguoboy wrote:
Salmoneus wrote:This easy-goingness is not my perception of online speakers, since everywhere I've found any smidgen of Irish its always followed by angry condemnations of dublin irish, gaelscoil irish, standard irish, etc. Apparently it's learners who are destroying the language - if only it could remain spoken only by elderly farmers, or possibly by the occasional professional linguist, it wouldn't face any of these problems with impurity...
Yeah, well, that's the Internet, isn't it? The average fandom discussion is not going to make you expect a fan convention to be a welcoming place either, but most actually are.

My Irish is shit, but I've yet to have anyone I've spoken it with in real life tell me that. As I say, they're simply chuffed someone makes the effort to speak it at all.
Out of curiosity, how have you encountered anyone to speak it to?
[and wait, some fan conventions aren't horrible? I don't think I've seen anyone suggest anything other than that they're ghastly (but necessary in order to see the celebrities), so it's nice to hear that at least one person enjoys them.]
Salmoneus wrote:But you imply that it may actually be a (widespread, non-derogated) usage? Rather than just something some random guy on the internet said once without thinking?
See here: http://www.focloir.ie/ga/dictionary/ei/sad.
Yes; unfortunately, as I don't speak Irish, that's of only limited help to me. Squinting and guessing, is it that "bheith" in "bheith brónach" is some form of the copula, and that the answer is therefore 'yes, that's a thing'? Although I can't see anything there about the inquisitive, or about why the copular construction might sometimes be used rather than the standard one.
The Foclóir Nua Béarla-Gaeilge seems to accurately reflect contemporary usage, from what I can tell.
Salmoneus wrote:I should clarify: I don't actually speak Irish. I'm still at the stage of simple sentences and limited vocabulary.
Sentences don't get much simpler than those!
... sorry to waste your time with my idiot non-speaker-ness, but yes, yes they do. Even looking up the words (I know é, and I recognised but didn't instantly remember tóg, and I'm aware of the existence of 'go' as a mysterious particle), I still don't really know what the sentences mean or why, though I assume I get the general drift.

My grammar at this stage is of the simple indicative present perfective statement kind, with some awareness of prepositions and questions, plus the latent suspicion that later on there are going to be present progressives in "ag + some_sort_of_verb_form". Paul is a crab, he wants soup, the woman is in the refrigerator, the president of ireland is proud of his ducks, the men drink but the women eat, my lawyer is very heavy... simple, basic everyday sentences.
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Re: Questions not about German Thread

Post by linguoboy »

Salmoneus wrote:Out of curiosity, how have you encountered anyone to speak it to?
I live in a city of 2.7 million, roughly a fifth of whom claim Irish ancestry (thousands of whom are actually Irish-born). We have an Irish-American Heritage Center where Irish is taught.
Salmoneus wrote:[and wait, some fan conventions aren't horrible? I don't think I've seen anyone suggest anything other than that they're ghastly (but necessary in order to see the celebrities), so it's nice to hear that at least one person enjoys them.]
A lot of my friends do cons, and I rarely hear bad stories.
Yes; unfortunately, as I don't speak Irish, that's of only limited help to me. Squinting and guessing, is it that "bheith" in "bheith brónach" is some form of the copula, and that the answer is therefore 'yes, that's a thing'? Although I can't see anything there about the inquisitive, or about why the copular construction might sometimes be used rather than the standard one.
Okay, point of terminology: For Irish, the copula is is (in all its various forms). Nominal and adjectival predication can also be effected by means of and these constructions may correspond to so-called "copular" constructions in English (using forms of be), but nevertheless is considered a distinct verb and is not referred to as a "copula".

Yeah, a dictionary isn't the best source for capturing nuances of usage. But, like I said, you've got a false dichotomy going here. Whatever subtle differences between them in usage, both bheith brónach and gruaim a bheith ort are equally "standard".
Salmoneus wrote:... sorry to waste your time with my idiot non-speaker-ness, but yes, yes they do. Even looking up the words (I know é, and I recognised but didn't instantly remember tóg, and I'm aware of the existence of 'go' as a mysterious particle), I still don't really know what the sentences mean or why, though I assume I get the general drift.
They're both common phrases, so googling will find you glosses even if you can't interpret each element.
Salmoneus wrote:My grammar at this stage is of the simple indicative present perfective statement kind, with some awareness of prepositions and questions, plus the latent suspicion that later on there are going to be present progressives in "ag + some_sort_of_verb_form". Paul is a crab, he wants soup, the woman is in the refrigerator, the president of ireland is proud of his ducks, the men drink but the women eat, my lawyer is very heavy... simple, basic everyday sentences.
No imperatives yet? I remember those being introduced pretty early in most European language courses, since the familiar form is so often identical to the stem. (In fact, it's often used as the citation form in Irish, which is the convention I follow. Using verb-nouns is trickier, since there tends to be more dialectal variation and most defective verbs lack them.)

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Viktor77
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Re: Questions not about German Thread

Post by Viktor77 »

This program claims to build syntax trees so I put this example in. Now I'm not very good with these trees as I've only had 2 classes where we constructed them and they were both in French, but isn't the program's placement of the preposition in the phrasal verb "to eat up" as having a particle-like relationship with "yesterday" incorrect? Where should it go?
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Re: Questions not about German Thread

Post by Vijay »

OK, first of all, those are not traditional syntax trees (but OK, sure, I'm pretty sure they are still syntax trees or at least that you could argue they are), so I'm not really sure how they're supposed to work, but I guess the "up" should be either modifying "ate" or considered part of that verb.

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