Chinese thread

[Qwynegold]

If you're learning via pinyin then do the pinyin one. I have both New Experience and Classic Input on mine, but they're pretty much the same thing. New Experience waits for you to type out a whole phrase before predicting what characters you want, Classic Input does it syllable by syllable.

Aha. The one you call classic is the one labelled Microsoft Pinyin ABC? Maybe that would be better than New Experience because I will be working with my flashcard program, so there will be a lot of single words or even just single characters. But it sounds like New Experience might be faster when typing actual text? How does it know when to convert one's key strokes to characters? Another issue is that if one needs to type an unknown character, then pinyin input is of no help.

I find New Experience easier because most Mandarin words are more than one character long, so the options become much more specific and more likely to be accurate. Of course it does mess up every once in a while you have to remember to proofread.

Oh, I see. You get too many options when doing one character at a time.

[linguoboy]

Are some of these, like -ong, never found without an onset? I'll add consonants later...

In Bopomofo, -ong is considered the non-initial form of weng. Like 中 is written ㄓㄨㄥ zh + u + eng.

[Rui]

iou/iu/you [iou] The pronunciation varies between Swedish jo [ju:] and English yo in yoke, yo-yo. (Had trouble translating this sentence because it was so ungrammatical in Swedish. :S) "Iou" - pronounced. "Iu" - spelled. "You" is used when there is no consonant in the beginning of the syllable. This makes no sense. Are there three different spellings? When is which used? And how is it pronounced in each environment?

"iou" is never used in pinyin. It's "you" when there's no initial and "iu" when there is an initial (diu, jiu, liu, niu, qiu, xiu). With no initial ("you") it's clearly pronounced [jou], but when there is an initial it seems to be in free variation, I think? I'm trying to figure out if there's a pattern, but I can't think of one. Either way, regardless of which you say you'll be easily understood. (I'm using [jou] broadly because I'm not quite sure what the quality of the vowel is more like, but it might be something like [jəu] or [jɤu])

Pretty much, i and u (and ü) can never start a syllable in pinyin, they are always replaced with y and w.

One vowel sound that's conspicuously missing is the [ɨ]-like sound which is represented with following s, z, r, sh, zh, ch. There's at least 2 different sounds here I can tell, one that follows s, z and one that follows the others. si, zi have more of an [ɪ] or [ɯ] like quality, while shi, zhi, chi, ri sound more like [ɨ]

[Qwynegold]

Are some of these, like -ong, never found without an onset? I'll add consonants later...

In Bopomofo, -ong is considered the non-initial form of weng. Like 中 is written ㄓㄨㄥ zh + u + eng.

Oh?!! So then there is no Cueng either then?

[Qwynegold]

iou/iu/you [iou] The pronunciation varies between Swedish jo [ju:] and English yo in yoke, yo-yo. (Had trouble translating this sentence because it was so ungrammatical in Swedish. :S) "Iou" - pronounced. "Iu" - spelled. "You" is used when there is no consonant in the beginning of the syllable. This makes no sense. Are there three different spellings? When is which used? And how is it pronounced in each environment?

"iou" is never used in pinyin. It's "you" when there's no initial and "iu" when there is an initial (diu, jiu, liu, niu, qiu, xiu). With no initial ("you") it's clearly pronounced [jou], but when there is an initial it seems to be in free variation, I think? I'm trying to figure out if there's a pattern, but I can't think of one. Either way, regardless of which you say you'll be easily understood. (I'm using [jou] broadly because I'm not quite sure what the quality of the vowel is more like, but it might be something like [jəu] or [jɤu])

Aha. Thank you. What about ui? Is it the same thing there? It seems though that this one always (?) has some third vowel pronounced there in the middle, or?

Pretty much, i and u (and ü) can never start a syllable in pinyin, they are always replaced with y and w.

What about wu, yi, yin and so on? Do they start with a semivowel?

One vowel sound that's conspicuously missing is the [ɨ]-like sound which is represented with following s, z, r, sh, zh, ch. There's at least 2 different sounds here I can tell, one that follows s, z and one that follows the others. si, zi have more of an [ɪ] or [ɯ] like quality, while shi, zhi, chi, ri sound more like [ɨ]

I was gonna ask something about this too, but I don't have my stuff with me right now. We had our second lesson yesterday, and went through the rest of the consonants. Some of the /i/ sounded like [y] or [ʉ] to me, and then there were all those fricated vowels. But I'll get back with questions later...

[zompist]

One vowel sound that's conspicuously missing is the [ɨ]-like sound which is represented with following s, z, r, sh, zh, ch. There's at least 2 different sounds here I can tell, one that follows s, z and one that follows the others. si, zi have more of an [ɪ] or [ɯ] like quality, while shi, zhi, chi, ri sound more like [ɨ]

Norman describes these as simply the voiced continuation of the initial. So si is pretty much [sz], and the i in shi etc. sounds like (retroflex) r.

[M Mira]

One vowel sound that's conspicuously missing is the [ɨ]-like sound which is represented with following s, z, r, sh, zh, ch. There's at least 2 different sounds here I can tell, one that follows s, z and one that follows the others. si, zi have more of an [ɪ] or [ɯ] like quality, while shi, zhi, chi, ri sound more like [ɨ]

In Zhuyin, they do not come with any vowels (they did once upon a time), so I used to think of them as syllabic consonants until I stumbled upon the Wikipedia articles of Mandarin phonology and discovered these "WTF vowels". They still feel like consonant that are voiced to the length of a full syllable though.

Oh?!! So then there is no Cueng either then?

I believe so, it should be "cong", e.g. 從、聰

Aha. Thank you. What about ui? Is it the same thing there? It seems though that this one always (?) has some third vowel pronounced there in the middle, or?

It's the non-initial form of "wei"

What about wu, yi, yin and so on? Do they start with a semivowel?

I cannot vouch for my pronunciation being true for all Mandarin speakers, but I do not pronounce wu(-C), yi(-C), yü(-C) with glides. They start with glottal stops.
[(-C) = consonant, may be empty]

[Rui]

One vowel sound that's conspicuously missing is the [ɨ]-like sound which is represented with following s, z, r, sh, zh, ch. There's at least 2 different sounds here I can tell, one that follows s, z and one that follows the others. si, zi have more of an [ɪ] or [ɯ] like quality, while shi, zhi, chi, ri sound more like [ɨ]

In Zhuyin, they do not come with any vowels (they did once upon a time), so I used to think of them as syllabic consonants until I stumbled upon the Wikipedia articles of Mandarin phonology and discovered these "WTF vowels". They still feel like consonant that are voiced to the length of a full syllable though.

I definitely feel a vocal fold vibration in the syllable, but none of the initials except r are actually voiced. Now I'm curious.

ETA:

What about wu, yi, yin and so on? Do they start with a semivowel?

I cannot vouch for my pronunciation being true for all Mandarin speakers, but I do not pronounce wu(-C), yi(-C), yü(-C) with glides. They start with glottal stops.
[(-C) = consonant, may be empty]

With no finals (-n, -ng), I agree there's not really a glide. However, for me, -un, -in, -ing, and -ün all have glides or are otherwise diphthongized (and also nasalized but that's a different story). I believe this is non-standard for -in and -ing, and more typical of a Beijing/Dongbei accent.

[M Mira]

One vowel sound that's conspicuously missing is the [ɨ]-like sound which is represented with following s, z, r, sh, zh, ch. There's at least 2 different sounds here I can tell, one that follows s, z and one that follows the others. si, zi have more of an [ɪ] or [ɯ] like quality, while shi, zhi, chi, ri sound more like [ɨ]

In Zhuyin, they do not come with any vowels (they did once upon a time), so I used to think of them as syllabic consonants until I stumbled upon the Wikipedia articles of Mandarin phonology and discovered these "WTF vowels". They still feel like consonant that are voiced to the length of a full syllable though.

I definitely feel a vocal fold vibration in the syllable, but none of the initials except r are actually voiced. Now I'm curious.

zhi->zhr, chi->chr, shi->shr, ri->r
zi->tsz, ci->ts'z, si->sz
I used Wade-Giles for the second row because the z in pinyin is not the z (/z/) that I meant.

ETA:

What about wu, yi, yin and so on? Do they start with a semivowel?

I cannot vouch for my pronunciation being true for all Mandarin speakers, but I do not pronounce wu(-C), yi(-C), yü(-C) with glides. They start with glottal stops.
[(-C) = consonant, may be empty]

With no finals (-n, -ng), I agree there's not really a glide. However, for me, -un, -in, -ing, and -ün all have glides or are otherwise diphthongized (and also nasalized but that's a different story). I believe this is non-standard for -in and -ing, and more typical of a Beijing/Dongbei accent.

I should've been more precise: I mean in the cases where a syllable starts with a lone vowel and perhaps its corresponding semivowel, so -un is not part of the scope (it's wen initially and that's how I pronounce it). But for yun/-ün, mea culpa, I forgot about it. I'm pretty sure that yin and ying are both pronounced without a gilde and with the same vowel here though, and they sound similar enough that there's a great deal of confusion, the most common one being 因該 for 應該.

[Qwynegold]

Okay, thanks for the answers everyone!

Oh?!! So then there is no Cueng either then?

I believe so, it should be "cong", e.g. 從、聰

With C I meant any consonant. >.<

[Qwynegold]

I'll add consonants later...

Here's what my handouts say about the consonants.

Consonants - Initial sounds 21 pcs
b p unvoiced
b unaspirated. Pronounced like a Swedish b, but voiceless as in the words "spark".
p[bʻ] aspirated. It sounds stronger than a Swedish "p", as in the word "knapphål".

m f as in Swedish
m [m] nasal unaspirated.
f [fʻ] voiceless fricative.

d t
d [t] unaspirated like in Swedish. Pronounced like Swedish "t" in "stake", "stanna".
t [tʻ] aspirated. Pronounced like Swedish "t" in "tak", "katthår".

n l as in Swedish
n [n] Nasal
l [l] Voiced fricative Surely this isn't [ɮ]?

g k h
g [k] unaspirated. Pronounced like Swedish "k" in "skatt", "Skåne".
k [kʻ] aspirated. Pronounced like Swedish "k" in "katt", "Stockholm".
h [x] aspirated. Pronounced as surely barely (?) "hörs", "har". /h/ in Swedish is just glottal.

j q x
j[tɕ] Unaspirated. Pronounced like the Swedish letter combination "dj", cf "adjunkt", "smedja", and "adjektiv". These all just have [dj] actually. Pronounced like English "g" in "gin".
q [tɕʻ] Aspirated. Pronounced approximately like "ttj" in "attjo", "lattjo". These both have [t:ɕ].
x [ɕ] Voiceless fricative. Pronounced like Swedish "tje" sound, [ɕ] like in the words "Kina", "tjock", "kjol", "kött", and "kök".

z c s (zi ci si)
-i in zi, ci, si is pronounced like a "Viby i" or "Bohuslän i" (I have no idea how those dialects sound like) (the tongue is kept in the same position as when you are pronouncing "s": "a voiced extension of the onsets z,c,s")
z [ts] Unaspirated. Pronounced like "ds" sound in the word "levnadsår".
c [tsʻ] Aspirated. Pronounced like "ts" sounds in words like "bits", "Mats hår". How can one pronounce <ci> [tsʰz̩]? The aspiration is in my way!
s [s] Voiceless fricative. Pronounced as in Swedish.

zh ch sh r (zhi chi shi ri)
The -i is a little towards the r direction. The i blends together with the retroflex sound.
Pronounce all the letters in each syllable with the tongue in the retroflex position.
zh [tʂ] Unaspirated. The tongue starts out in the retroflex position and is snapped a bit forwards toward the teeth. Sounds a little bit like having a d sound in front of "dzh", voicing. Pronounced like "dr" in English "draw" or "drive" and the English pronunciation of the name "George". The retroflexes my teacher made sounded to me more similar to postalveolars than Swedish retroflexes. When I follow these instructions, my retroflexes still sound Swedish.
ch [tʂ] Aspirated. The tongue begins in retroflex position and is snapped from there slightly forward towards the teeth, somewhat more explosively, i.e. we get a clearly aspirated variant of "zh", not voiced. Pronounced like Upswedish (?) "rts" in "fortsätta".
sh [ʂʻ] The tongue is again still in the retroflex position, and you pronounce a "sje" sound. /ɧ/ Pronounced like "rs" in the words "farstu", [-ʂ:-] "fors", [-ʂ:] "kors", [-ʂ:] and "marsch". [-ɧ:]
r [ʐ] the tongue stands still in the retroflex position and you try to say "R". Found in English words like "red", "Roger", "raw".

Are f, h, sh really aspirated like this says? Also, when we were practicing these consonants, the teacher's <t k> sounded more like [tx kx]. My /kʰ/ easily becomes like that too, though.

[M Mira]

Okay, thanks for the answers everyone!

Oh?!! So then there is no Cueng either then?

I believe so, it should be "cong", e.g. 從、聰

With C I meant any consonant. >.<

Oh, my bad. But in zhuyin, u+eng = (w)ong, ü+eng = y/iong, so such  pronunciation doesn't exist.

b p unvoiced
b unaspirated. Pronounced like a Swedish b, but voiceless as in the words "spark".
p[bʻ] aspirated. It sounds stronger than a Swedish "p", as in the word "knapphål".

Surely it's p/p'?

l [l] Voiced fricative Surely this isn't [ɮ]?

Don't know about this one.

z c s (zi ci si)
-i in zi, ci, si is pronounced like a "Viby i" or "Bohuslän i" (I have no idea how those dialects sound like) (the tongue is kept in the same position as when you are pronouncing "s": "a voiced extension of the onsets z,c,s")
z [ts] Unaspirated. Pronounced like "ds" sound in the word "levnadsår".
c [tsʻ] Aspirated. Pronounced like "ts" sounds in words like "bits", "Mats hår". How can one pronounce <ci> [tsʰz̩]? The aspiration is in my way!
s [s] Voiceless fricative. Pronounced as in Swedish.

Do you mean that the aspiration is in the way of voicing z? I found that the flow of air weakens to that of an English /z/ shortly after the initial release /tsʰ/, barely enough to keep the vocal cord vibrating

Are f, h, sh really aspirated like this says? Also, when we were practicing these consonants, the teacher's <t k> sounded more like [tx kx]. My /kʰ/ easily becomes like that too, though.

I don't really know if f and h are aspirated, since they don't contrast with anything. sh probably do, since if it's unaspirated, then sh/r would be the only pair distinguished by voicing only in Mandarin.
About [tx kx], maybe it's because your teacher was trying to elongate the consonants without a vowel?

[Nortaneous]

The apical vowel / empty rime (usually transcribed /ɿ/), in what Mandarin I've heard, sounds to me like syllabic [z] after alveolars and AmEng [3`] after retroflexes -- shi sounds like AmEng "sure". Fricated vowels (preferred over 'syllabic fricatives') are common in the languages of China -- Nuosu has four. That's the main area where they occur, but some African [Bantu?] languages have them, as does Iau, supposedly. The papers I've read say they tend to arise from push chains raising lower vowels: there's one Chinese dialect that had ie > i, i > ɿ.

There are a few other areal features that are relevant here. I suspect (though I haven't seen any actual articles about this) that languages in that area tend not to distinguish between fricatives and approximants. Hmong <y> and Yi consonantal <y> are [j\], but there's no j\~j contrast. That said, I'm guessing Mandarin /l/ is not a fricative. Aspirated fricatives are another areal feature, but Mandarin doesn't have them. (Unlike Korean, Burmese, Wutun, Burmese, Shan... and supposedly Mongolian /s S/ are always phonetically aspirated.)

If that's your handout, it looks badly written. Is this a language class or a linguistics class? Does your teacher know linguistics? Language classes IME are awful at phonetics. They're probably just teaching approximations. But teaching <sh> as the sje-sound is just bizarre, especially if Swedish has [s`]. (Also, English postalveolars are laminal, except maybe /S/ after /r/. Aren't Mandarin retroflexes apical?) If you care about pronunciation, go on Wikipedia and Youtube and imitate what they do.

I've heard references to Swedish vowels with a fricated /i/.

As for <ci>, aspiration is about voice-onset lag, not phonetic [h].

[Rui]

I definitely feel a vocal fold vibration in the syllable, but none of the initials except r are actually voiced. Now I'm curious.

zhi->zhr, chi->chr, shi->shr, ri->r
zi->tsz, ci->ts'z, si->sz
I used Wade-Giles for the second row because the z in pinyin is not the z (/z/) that I meant.

Is this for Taiwan Standard Mandarin? Because this would be tricky to use as analysis for Beijing accent due to erhua (事 has erhua, for example, while 是 does not). shi with erhua sounds more like AmEnglish "sure" than shi without erhua (see Nort's post above).

Are f, h, sh really aspirated like this says? Also, when we were practicing these consonants, the teacher's <t k> sounded more like [tx kx]. My /kʰ/ easily becomes like that too, though.

I don't think <f> is aspirated. <h> tends more towards [x], especially before high vowels, but it can also be [h]. <t k> tend to become [tx kx] for me, particularly when there's stress on that syllable.

[Nortaneous]

I don't think I've heard the dialects with erhua everywhere.

[M Mira]

I definitely feel a vocal fold vibration in the syllable, but none of the initials except r are actually voiced. Now I'm curious.

zhi->zhr, chi->chr, shi->shr, ri->r
zi->tsz, ci->ts'z, si->sz
I used Wade-Giles for the second row because the z in pinyin is not the z (/z/) that I meant.

Is this for Taiwan Standard Mandarin? Because this would be tricky to use as analysis for Beijing accent due to erhua (事 has erhua, for example, while 是 does not). shi with erhua sounds more like AmEnglish "sure" than shi without erhua (see Nort's post above).

Erhua is very rare in the Mandarin spoken in Taiwan, typically only present in words that are written with an -兒, and doesn't have concrete meanings like "small" or "child", so 一會兒 contains a 會 that has erhua, sounds like "where" (the "aspirated" pronunciation) on the third tone. 這兒 and 那兒 are still around, but they're being replaced by 這裡 and 那裡 or 這— and 那— (longer vowel). I can't think of an example of erhua with a closed syllable though, maybe they've all been deleted here?

[svld]

Are f, h, sh really aspirated like this says? Also, when we were practicing these consonants, the teacher's <t k> sounded more like [tx kx]. My /kʰ/ easily becomes like that too, though.

They probably are aspirated, considering aspiration is about voice-onset lag.

Is this for Taiwan Standard Mandarin? Because this would be tricky to use as analysis for Beijing accent due to erhua (事 has erhua, for example, while 是 does not). shi with erhua sounds more like AmEnglish "sure" than shi without erhua (see Nort's post above).

I'm taiwanese, and erhua <r> is ɝ~ɚ while onset <r> is a laminal fricative in my idiolect.
(all my <zh ch sh r> onset are laminal and differ from <z c s> series and <j q x> series)

[Rui]

Examples I've heard in Beijing of closed syllable erhua, just off the top of my head:

一点儿, 明儿, 眼镜儿, (好)玩儿, 聊天儿, 空儿, 哥们儿, 门儿, 皮筋儿, 串儿, 公园儿, 本儿 (I think only when used as a noun obviously, not as a measure word)

(all my <zh ch sh r> onset are laminal and differ from <z c s> series and <j q x> series)

Is that common where you're from in Taiwan? My impression of Taiwan accent is that <zh ch sh> merged with <z c s> but I don't have a lot of experience, I was only there 1 week.

[M Mira]

Is this for Taiwan Standard Mandarin? Because this would be tricky to use as analysis for Beijing accent due to erhua (事 has erhua, for example, while 是 does not). shi with erhua sounds more like AmEnglish "sure" than shi without erhua (see Nort's post above).

I'm taiwanese, and erhua <r> is ɝ~ɚ while onset <r> is a laminal fricative in my idiolect.
(all my <zh ch sh r> onset are laminal and differ from <z c s> series and <j q x> series)

In other words, the stops/fricatives are produced by placing the upper surface of the tongue onto/close to the alveolar ridge, as opposed to retracting the tongue further and raising the tip of the tongue onto/close to the alveolar ridge? I'm not really familiar with terminologies regarding phonetics so I want to make sure if I get it correctly.

Examples I've heard in Beijing of closed syllable erhua, just off the top of my head:

一点儿, 明儿, 眼镜儿, (好)玩儿, 聊天儿, 空儿, 哥们儿, 门儿, 皮筋儿, 串儿, 公园儿, 本儿 (I think only when used as a noun obviously, not as a measure word)

For me:
一点儿 yes
明儿 I don't understand this one at all
眼镜儿 眼鏡 only
(好)玩儿 Is this an adjective, noun, or verb? In all cases, no 兒： LOL很好玩、有沒有什麼好玩的？他在玩LOL
聊天儿 聊天 only
空儿 As like 有空儿? I only use 有空
哥们儿 Is this like "bros", "buddy-buddy"? In that case, it's 哥兒們, gēr-men. But it doesn't seem to be popular among the younger people anymore, but it could be just me.
门儿 only in 門兒都沒有 mér, nasalized vowel. This one is indeed erhua affecting closed syllables.
皮筋儿 橡皮筋 rubber band, right?
串儿 ? A forum thread?
公园儿 公園 only
本儿 A book? Is it thinner than 書? I do use 本子, but means "dōjinshi" around me.

(all my <zh ch sh r> onset are laminal and differ from <z c s> series and <j q x> series)

Is that common where you're from in Taiwan? My impression of Taiwan accent is that <zh ch sh> merged with <z c s> but I don't have a lot of experience, I was only there 1 week.

I think Taiwanese Mandarin and Taiwanese accent are a bit ambiguous
台灣國語 is "Non-standard Mandarin variants, affected by Hakka and/or Hokkien semantics and/or phonologies", typically spoken by Mandarin L2, and is usually regarded as accented.
國語 is "The standard Mandarin in Republic of China, as regulated by the Ministry of Education", the prestige dialect in Taiwan and taught in school. 

What you described occurs in the former but not the latter.

[svld]

In other words, the stops/fricatives are produced by placing the upper surface of the tongue onto/close to the alveolar ridge, as opposed to retracting the tongue further and raising the tip of the tongue onto/close to the alveolar ridge? I'm not really familiar with terminologies regarding phonetics so I want to make sure if I get it correctly.

I think the tongue is somewhat retracted but the tip is somewhere around the lower teeth, and it's not as front as the alveolar ridge.
Kind of like the de-palatalized version of <j q x> series.

[Rui]

For me:
一点儿 yes
明儿 I don't understand this one at all
眼镜儿 眼鏡 only
(好)玩儿 Is this an adjective, noun, or verb? In all cases, no 兒： LOL很好玩、有沒有什麼好玩的？他在玩LOL
聊天儿 聊天 only
空儿 As like 有空儿? I only use 有空
哥们儿 Is this like "bros", "buddy-buddy"? In that case, it's 哥兒們, gēr-men. But it doesn't seem to be popular among the younger people anymore, but it could be just me.
门儿 only in 門兒都沒有 mér, nasalized vowel. This one is indeed erhua affecting closed syllables.
皮筋儿 橡皮筋 rubber band, right?
串儿 ? A forum thread?
公园儿 公園 only
本儿 A book? Is it thinner than 書? I do use 本子, but means "dōjinshi" around me.

明儿 is a dialectal way of saying 明天
玩儿 is a verb, 好玩儿 is an adjective (I knew this one was BJ-specific because I've said it in other regions of China and people tell me I sound like I'm from Beijing haha). There's no erhua in words like 玩具, where the 玩 is the first element
空儿 as in 有空儿, yes
I think it can be either 哥们儿 or 哥儿们 in Beijing but I learned it as 哥们儿
皮筋儿 does mean rubber band, but when I learned it it specific meant a girl's hair tie. Not sure if you can also use it for "rubber band"
串儿 are the tasty (usually lamb) skewers that I think originated in Xinjiang but are popular all over Beijing. I'm not so well-versed in internet slang so I didn't know this could mean "thread" too!
本儿 I'm trying to remember its use, but I'm no really sure. It may have actually been 板, actually, as the most common time I heard it was in regards to a clipboard that people signed (签字_, I never actually learned what the last character was, but it was pronounced [bar], which could either be benr or banr. Thinking about it, 板 makes more sense in that context)

I think Taiwanese Mandarin and Taiwanese accent are a bit ambiguous
台灣國語 is "Non-standard Mandarin variants, affected by Hakka and/or Hokkien semantics and/or phonologies", typically spoken by Mandarin L2, and is usually regarded as accented.
國語 is "The standard Mandarin in Republic of China, as regulated by the Ministry of Education", the prestige dialect in Taiwan and taught in school.

What you described occurs in the former but not the latter.

Oh that's interesting! I didn't know that.

[Qwynegold]

Oh, my bad. But in zhuyin, u+eng = (w)ong, ü+eng = y/iong, so such  pronunciation doesn't exist.

OK, thanks!

b p unvoiced
b unaspirated. Pronounced like a Swedish b, but voiceless as in the words "spark".
p[bʻ] aspirated. It sounds stronger than a Swedish "p", as in the word "knapphål".

Surely it's p/p'?

Yeah, it must be a typo.

z c s (zi ci si)
-i in zi, ci, si is pronounced like a "Viby i" or "Bohuslän i" (I have no idea how those dialects sound like) (the tongue is kept in the same position as when you are pronouncing "s": "a voiced extension of the onsets z,c,s")
z [ts] Unaspirated. Pronounced like "ds" sound in the word "levnadsår".
c [tsʻ] Aspirated. Pronounced like "ts" sounds in words like "bits", "Mats hår". How can one pronounce <ci> [tsʰz̩]? The aspiration is in my way!
s [s] Voiceless fricative. Pronounced as in Swedish.

Do you mean that the aspiration is in the way of voicing z? I found that the flow of air weakens to that of an English /z/ shortly after the initial release /tsʰ/, barely enough to keep the vocal cord vibrating

When I try to pronounce it, it just becomes like [tsh̩:.s̩:] or something. [z] is one of the most difficult sounds for me to pronounce, and that aspiration makes it even harder to voice. It's also difficult to pronounce as one syllable. Either I get two syllables, or I lose aspiration.

sh probably do, since if it's unaspirated, then sh/r would be the only pair distinguished by voicing only in Mandarin.

Oh, that makes sense.

About [tx kx], maybe it's because your teacher was trying to elongate the consonants without a vowel?

No, we were saying out the bopomofo aloud.

[Qwynegold]

The apical vowel / empty rime (usually transcribed /ɿ/), in what Mandarin I've heard, sounds to me like syllabic [z] after alveolars and AmEng [3`] after retroflexes -- shi sounds like AmEng "sure".

Weren't there two symbols even, ɿ and... ʅ? When listening to my teacher, one of the vowels sounded like [z], and one sounded like [y] or [ʉ], but I have forgotten which groups of consonants they were preceded by.

That said, I'm guessing Mandarin /l/ is not a fricative. Aspirated fricatives are another areal feature, but Mandarin doesn't have them. (Unlike Korean, Burmese, Wutun, Burmese, Shan... and supposedly Mongolian /s S/ are always phonetically aspirated.)

Mhm. I was thinking she might've mistaken approximants for fricatives.

If that's your handout, it looks badly written. Is this a language class or a linguistics class? Does your teacher know linguistics? Language classes IME are awful at phonetics. They're probably just teaching approximations. But teaching <sh> as the sje-sound is just bizarre, especially if Swedish has [s`]. (Also, English postalveolars are laminal, except maybe /S/ after /r/. Aren't Mandarin retroflexes apical?) If you care about pronunciation, go on Wikipedia and Youtube and imitate what they do.

Yeah. As I've understood it, she has written it herself. The Swedish in it is really bad at times. This is a language class. It seems like my teacher does know some phonetics at least. The teaching is aimed at people who don't know anything about linguistics, so the phonology descriptions are pretty imprecise at times. It also focuses a lot on trying to get n00bs to not pronounce things in a Swedish way, such as pronouncing <o> as /u:/. >_<

I've heard references to Swedish vowels with a fricated /i/.

Yeah, there's a realization of /i:/ that starts out as an and ends as a [ʝ]. But I don't know if there is some other kind of fricated /i/ in some dialects.

As for <ci>, aspiration is about voice-onset lag, not phonetic [h].

*kills self* I'm Finnish, I can't be expected to modify my voicing like that. *angst*

[Qwynegold]

I don't think <f> is aspirated. <h> tends more towards [x], especially before high vowels, but it can also be [h]. <t k> tend to become [tx kx] for me, particularly when there's stress on that syllable.

Aha. Thanks!

[Qwynegold]

Okay, so [ʂʐ̩ː˧˥] (or my attempt of pronuncing it) was completely wrong for shí, so now I'll just say [ʂyː˧˥] because that's what it sound like when the teacher says it.