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 Post subject: What, where, when
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:11 am 
Avisaru
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Firstly, I apologise if this is in the wrong section!

So someone posted this on Facebook a few days ago and I must say that it had never occurred to me. They posted that the questions "When", "Where" and "When" can be answered by substituting the w for a t. Where > There. I suppose I was mostly surprised by the fact that I'd never noticed this. I guess this has been discussed here before, but is this purely coincidental or did it occur deliberately?

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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:40 am 
Smeric
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This is purely a coincidence. Using "what" and "that" as examples, in Old English, these two words were spelt "hwæt" and "þæt". In the course of time, "hw" was respelled "wh" and "þ" was respelled "th", yielding "what" and "that". Ditto for the other pairs.


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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:04 am 
Lebom
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That only changed the question from w/t correspondence to hw/þ correspondence though, and to my surprise all three of them fits even in Old English even down to vowel lengths.


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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:14 am 
Sanno
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M Mira wrote:
That only changed the question from w/t correspondence to hw/þ correspondence though, and to my surprise all three of them fits even in Old English even down to vowel lengths.


Throughout IE. Latin 'tam' (so much) vs 'quam' (how much), and 'talis' (such a kind) vs 'qualis' (what kind) for instance.

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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:21 am 
Smeric
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Ok, going back all the way to PIE, *kʷó-d vs. *tó-d ("what" vs. "that"), *kʷó-m vs. *tó-m ("when" vs. "then"), and *kʷó-r vs. *tó-r ("where" vs. "there"). In this case, *kʷo- and *to- are adjectival pronoun stems derived from the more basic pronoun roots *kʷ- and *t-.


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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:40 am 
Avisaru
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Well if that isn't the most interesting revelation.

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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:16 am 
Avisaru
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I think I'm getting out of my depth now!

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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:33 pm 
Lebom
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I sometimes feel like we should use "hat" instead of "this" and "hen" instead of "now", to parallel the "here"/"there" (and hither/thither and hence/thence and here-/there- compounds) distinction.


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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:34 pm 
Sanci
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KathTheDragon wrote:
Ok, going back all the way to PIE, *kʷó-d vs. *tó-d ("what" vs. "that"), *kʷó-m vs. *tó-m ("when" vs. "then"), and *kʷó-r vs. *tó-r ("where" vs. "there"). In this case, *kʷo- and *to- are adjectival pronoun stems derived from the more basic pronoun roots *kʷ- and *t-.


At this point it seems pretty apparent that PIE was simply an ancient esperanto gone awry.


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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:31 pm 
Smeric
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gmalivuk wrote:
I sometimes feel like we should use "hat" instead of "this" and "hen" instead of "now", to parallel the "here"/"there" (and hither/thither and hence/thence and here-/there- compounds) distinction.

Yeah, but we already use "hat" for wearing on the head. And some of us use "hen" for meat and eggs.

Abi wrote:
At this point it seems pretty apparent that PIE was simply an ancient esperanto gone awry.

Kio ajn hindeŭrope dirita estas, esperante vidatas.

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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:36 am 
Lebom
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Pole, the wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:
I sometimes feel like we should use "hat" instead of "this" and "hen" instead of "now", to parallel the "here"/"there" (and hither/thither and hence/thence and here-/there- compounds) distinction.

Yeah, but we already use "hat" for wearing on the head. And some of us use "hen" for meat and eggs.
Look if I want to hat hat hat hen and forever, I won't let your argument from homonymy stop me.


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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:55 pm 
Sanno
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Pole, the wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:
I sometimes feel like we should use "hat" instead of "this" and "hen" instead of "now", to parallel the "here"/"there" (and hither/thither and hence/thence and here-/there- compounds) distinction.

Yeah, but we already use "hat" for wearing on the head. And some of us use "hen" for meat and eggs.

there their they're
here hear hir


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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:38 am 
Avisaru
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linguoboy wrote:
Pole, the wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:
I sometimes feel like we should use "hat" instead of "this" and "hen" instead of "now", to parallel the "here"/"there" (and hither/thither and hence/thence and here-/there- compounds) distinction.

Yeah, but we already use "hat" for wearing on the head. And some of us use "hen" for meat and eggs.

there their they're
here hear hir


Those words, depending on regional accents, aren't necessarily pronounced the same, and hir isn't even a word... In South Wales "there" is different to "their" and "they're" - both sounding like "theya". Also, "Here", "hear", "year" and "ear" are all pronounced as "yurr" (rhyming with "fur").

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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:15 pm 
Avisaru
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that hardly negates the point that Some Words Are Homographs/Homophones

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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:01 am 
Avisaru
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Yng wrote:
that hardly negates the point that Some Words Are Homographs/Homophones


If this is aimed at me, I apologise if I seemed argumentative. It wasn't meant as such. I was just pointing out that (mainly) the words their and they're have two syllables when spoken in a South Wales accent (particularly the Valleys).

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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:16 am 
Lebom
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dyolf wrote:
and hir isn't even a word...

Yes, it is.


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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:03 am 
Avisaru
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gmalivuk wrote:
dyolf wrote:
and hir isn't even a word...

Yes, it is.


I stand corrected.

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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:20 pm 
Sumerul
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Why can't people just use they... and no, I am not going to remember what your favorite personal pronoun is, thank you. (Luckily no one has ever insisted to me that I call them a particular pronoun.)

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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:02 pm 
Smeric
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Travis B. wrote:
Why can't people just use they... and no, I am not going to remember what your favorite personal pronoun is, thank you. (Luckily no one has ever insisted to me that I call them a particular pronoun.)

I personally have never heard any other gender-indefinite pronoun used outside the internet.

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 Post subject: Re: What, where, when
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:59 pm 
Lebom
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Travis B. wrote:
Why can't people just use they... and no, I am not going to remember what your favorite personal pronoun is, thank you. (Luckily no one has ever insisted to me that I call them a particular pronoun.)
"... and no, I am not going to remember what your favorite personal name is, thank you"

That's cool, Greg. You do you.

(And I mean, sure, if someone picks a totally unique "pronoun" it's really just another name and they'd essentially rather you didn't use pronouns at all. But in real life, even the part of real life here on the Internet, people don't tend to pick words uniformly from a set of thousands. They just pick from a set that's a couple times larger than {he, she, it, they}.)


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