"English is a Scandinavian language?"

[Richard W]

In my idiolect, the possessive of the verb form

How on earth does that work? What do such constructs mean?

The possessive is the word (or 'word plus enclitics') form with the postposition ///s/// (or should I write it ///z///?) added. The complication is that the possessor governed by the postposition may be a relative clause.

For example, if trying to choose a working motorbike for a long journey from a group of neglected motorbikes, one might say "The one that goes' engine doesn't sound too healthy", which would have the same meaning as "The engine of the one that goes doesn't sound too healthy", which many would write "The engine of the one that goes, doesn't sound too healthy". Contrast the sentence with "The ones that go's engines don't sound too healthy".

Things get really complicated when the head of the possessor is the final word in the possessor and is a pronoun. If this is not disallowed, one may find an interesting choice between <my>, <mine>, <I's> and <me's> to explain! We can also throw in "that friend of yours" for consideration.

[linguoboy]

UT... the similarities between English and Swedish are pretty obvious to anyone who's studied it. Including grammatically. For example, Swedish has lost case, too.

You mean, exactly like all other Germanic languages apart from German (High and Low), Yiddish, and Nordic outliers like Icelandic and Faroese? Not to mention all Brythonic Celtic languages and all Romance languages apart from Rumanian?

Did I say otherwise? I agreed that English is West Germanic. But I added that there are many striking similarities between English and Swedish as well. I gave one example.

Which isn't an example of a "striking similarity" at all. There's a ongoing tendency toward loss of case in modern Indo-European languages, a tendency particularly pronounced in Western Europe. You might as well mention the fact that, say, both languages have an open/close contrast among mid vowels.

[Bryan]

UT... the similarities between English and Swedish are pretty obvious to anyone who's studied it. Including grammatically. For example, Swedish has lost case, too.

You mean, exactly like all other Germanic languages apart from German (High and Low), Yiddish, and Nordic outliers like Icelandic and Faroese? Not to mention all Brythonic Celtic languages and all Romance languages apart from Rumanian?

Did I say otherwise? I agreed that English is West Germanic. But I added that there are many striking similarities between English and Swedish as well. I gave one example.

Which isn't an example of a "striking similarity" at all. There's a ongoing tendency toward loss of case in modern Indo-European languages, a tendency particularly pronounced in Western Europe. You might as well mention the fact that, say, both languages have an open/close contrast among mid vowels.

When I started to learn Swedish, after having spent time learning German, I was astonished personally by what I saw to be striking similarities between Swedish and English. The similarities struck me personally. I know a couple of other people who have learnt Swedish who felt the same way. Sorry that I wasn't pedantic enough; when I said "striking similarities", I should have prefixed the comment by saying "to me and other people I know"...

In other news... Linguoboy, it's been years, but you are disappointing because you are as pathetic and as pedantic a troll as ever you were. I personally have actually grown up from my sometime petulant online persona of yore; why haven't you? Get a grip, chum.

[EDIT]
I also just want to say that I'm not starting a flamewar or owt. Make a come back if you need to, that is fair enough, but I won't respond to it, though. No interest in a back and forth words-war.

[MaritimerAbroad]

When I started to learn Swedish, after having spent time learning German, I was astonished personally by what I saw to be striking similarities between Swedish and English. The similarities struck me personally. I know a couple of other people who have learnt Swedish who felt the same way. Sorry that I wasn't pedantic enough; when I said "striking similarities", I should have prefixed the comment by saying "to me and other people I know"

I've been learning Norwegian for a bit now after having studied German, and I know what you mean. English and Norwegian seem wayyy more similar in grammar and pronunciation than English and German do.

[mèþru]

In Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue: The Untold History of English, John McWhorter says that contact with Welsh is responsible some of the peculiarities of English "do" and "-ing". He also says that Norse speakers made a lot of simplifications of English, and that some of these changes made their way south. However, in the same book, he argues that Grimm's law may have been caused by Phoenician merchants, so I am not sure about his accuracy. Peter J Davidson was his student at the University of Berkeley.

[Travis B.]

In Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue: The Untold History of English, John McWhorter says that contact with Welsh is responsible some of the peculiarities of English "do" and "-ing". He also says that Norse speakers made a lot of simplifications of English, and that some of these changes made their way south. However, in the same book, he argues that Grimm's law may have been caused by Phoenician merchants, so I am not sure about his accuracy. Peter J Davidson was his student at the University of Berkeley.

/me facepalms.

[Chengjiang]

Grimm's law may have been caused by Phoenician merchants

What the actual hell? How would that even...WHAT?!

[linguoboy]

In Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue: The Untold History of English, John McWhorter says that contact with Welsh is responsible some of the peculiarities of English "do" and "-ing".

I don't really get this recurring desire on the part of some linguists to try to link English do-support to Welsh. As far as I know, it's not attested any earlier there and, more importantly, it's used in entirely different contexts--namely in non-emphatic light verb constructions to avoid having to conjugate other verbs synthetically. The closest parallel I know to this in Germanic isn't English, it's in Alemannic dialects where due forms a periphrastic subjunctive (e.g. i dät-em riäfe "I would call him").

Speaking of German dialects, several of them seem in the process of developing a progressive construction almost exactly parallel to that of English, a development most advanced in Ruhrpott. No need for Celtic influence to explain that either.

[mèþru]

Apparently, the Carthaginians had fricativization of consonants in certain circumstances.

[Vijay]

UT... the similarities between English and Swedish are pretty obvious to anyone who's studied it. Including grammatically. For example, Swedish has lost case, too.

You mean, exactly like all other Germanic languages apart from German (High and Low), Yiddish, and Nordic outliers like Icelandic and Faroese? Not to mention all Brythonic Celtic languages and all Romance languages apart from Rumanian?

Did I say otherwise? I agreed that English is West Germanic. But I added that there are many striking similarities between English and Swedish as well. I gave one example.

Which isn't an example of a "striking similarity" at all. There's a ongoing tendency toward loss of case in modern Indo-European languages, a tendency particularly pronounced in Western Europe. You might as well mention the fact that, say, both languages have an open/close contrast among mid vowels.

Not to mention that the case distinction is even being lost in some varieties of German. Texas German is an example, but it's not the only one at all IIRC.

[Zaarin]

Apparently, the Carthaginians had fricativization of consonants in certain circumstances.

Begadkafet (post-vocalic spirantization) is a common feature of all West Semitic languages, including Phoenician, Hebrew, and Aramaic, but I don't see what that has to do with Proto-Germanic in Northern Europe--especially since Grimm's Law is an unconditional chain shift involving spirantization.

[KathTheDragon]

Not entirely unconditional - it was blocked after another obstruent (hence the Germanic spirant law)

[jmcd]

Which makes me think what aspiration was like in Proto-Germanic. Perhaps the reason for the exception following other obstruents is that was the only context where they weren't aspirated?

Begadkafet seems to be somwhat closer to Romance lenition than anything Germanic. But even then, I feel it's easier to claim a Celtic connection to Romance on lenition due to greater proximity. Or perhaps the Semitics (Jewish diaspora?) influenced both Celtic and Romance?

[mèþru]

I don't think that he was referring to Begadkefat. He said Carthaginian had fricativization in contexts that Phoenician didn't. I'm also not sure if Phoenician ever went through Begadkefat.

[Travis B.]

Still, it is quite the stretch to ascribe any sound changes in Proto-Germanic to Carthaginian, I would think.