Latin to Sardinian sound changes
- Chengjiang
- Avisaru
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Latin to Sardinian sound changes
Hi again! Been a while, hasn't it?
I'm in the early stages of making a Latin-descended conlang that starts diverging at Classical rather than Vulgar Latin, and while I know Sardinian is a Romance language, it's a considerably divergent one and I would like to look at its development from Latin. Does anyone know of any good resources on the sound changes connecting Late/Vulgar Latin to Sardinian? Or on the evolution of Sardinian in general, for that matter?
I'm in the early stages of making a Latin-descended conlang that starts diverging at Classical rather than Vulgar Latin, and while I know Sardinian is a Romance language, it's a considerably divergent one and I would like to look at its development from Latin. Does anyone know of any good resources on the sound changes connecting Late/Vulgar Latin to Sardinian? Or on the evolution of Sardinian in general, for that matter?
[ʈʂʰɤŋtɕjɑŋ], or whatever you can comfortably pronounce that's close to that
Formerly known as Primordial Soup
Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.
Formerly known as Primordial Soup
Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.
Re: Latin to Sardinian sound changes
The Wikipedia page on Sardinian contains a lit bit on sound changes. The resources and external links may contain more information.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
kårroť
kårroť
- Chengjiang
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Re: Latin to Sardinian sound changes
In particular, I'm interested in information on the origins of palatoalveolar consonants in Sardinian, since it doesn't share the Romance palatalization of velars.
[ʈʂʰɤŋtɕjɑŋ], or whatever you can comfortably pronounce that's close to that
Formerly known as Primordial Soup
Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.
Formerly known as Primordial Soup
Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.
Re: Latin to Sardinian sound changes
Off the top of my head (I may be wrong), Sardinian still has palatalization of coronals (e.g. t > ts in, say, nātiō in the case of western Romance).Chengjiang wrote:In particular, I'm interested in information on the origins of palatoalveolar consonants in Sardinian, since it doesn't share the Romance palatalization of velars.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
- Chengjiang
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Re: Latin to Sardinian sound changes
It does, generating [ts dz] from Latin [t d] in palatalizing environments IIRC. I'm not clear on the origins of Sardinian [tʃ dʒ ʃ ʒ], though.Travis B. wrote:Off the top of my head (I may be wrong), Sardinian still has palatalization of coronals (e.g. t > ts in, say, nātiō in the case of western Romance).Chengjiang wrote:In particular, I'm interested in information on the origins of palatoalveolar consonants in Sardinian, since it doesn't share the Romance palatalization of velars.
[ʈʂʰɤŋtɕjɑŋ], or whatever you can comfortably pronounce that's close to that
Formerly known as Primordial Soup
Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.
Formerly known as Primordial Soup
Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.
- Salmoneus
- Sanno
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Re: Latin to Sardinian sound changes
Well for one thing, there's no such thing as 'Sardinian' - there are three different Sardinian languages, at least, with different histories. I think it's only Nuorese that doesn't have palatalisation at all. Logudorese proper doesn't palatalised velars before front vowels, but it does palatalise them before /j/. However, the outcome of that is just /t:/, so that doesn't really help you much. Campidanese does palatalise velars before front vowel. Additionally, Logudorese produces /dZ/ from Latin /kl/ clusters, but I don't think the others do. And Nuorese sometimes gets /S/ from /s/: apparently Latin 'deorsum' > N. /joS:o/ - is that the effect of the rs cluster perhaps?
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
Re: Latin to Sardinian sound changes
Campidanese is the most widely spoken, followed by Logudorese and Nuorese. There seems to be a debate about whether Nuorese is a subdialect of Logudorese or not. There is a Standard Sardinian, which is apparently based on both Campidanese and Logudorese. Nuorese is the most conservative. All of this is from Wikipedia, not actual understanding of the language.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
kårroť
kårroť
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Re: Latin to Sardinian sound changes
...yes, those things are all true. Your point being?mèþru wrote:Campidanese is the most widely spoken, followed by Logudorese and Nuorese. There seems to be a debate about whether Nuorese is a subdialect of Logudorese or not. There is a Standard Sardinian, which is apparently based on both Campidanese and Logudorese. Nuorese is the most conservative. All of this is from Wikipedia, not actual understanding of the language.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
Re: Latin to Sardinian sound changes
I thought that it would be helpful for Chengjiang if they wanted to choose one of the dialects as the basis of the romlang.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
kårroť
kårroť
- Chengjiang
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Re: Latin to Sardinian sound changes
FWIW it's not actually going to be based on any of these. I wanted information on these languages partly just because I was curious and partly because I wanted to look at cases where certain sounds generated from different sources than they did in most of the rest of Romance. When I actually make the conlang I'm going to apply sound changes to early Classical or possibly even late Old Latin.mèþru wrote:I thought that it would be helpful for Chengjiang if they wanted to choose one of the dialects as the basis of the romlang.
[ʈʂʰɤŋtɕjɑŋ], or whatever you can comfortably pronounce that's close to that
Formerly known as Primordial Soup
Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.
Formerly known as Primordial Soup
Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.
- Chengjiang
- Avisaru
- Posts: 437
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:41 am
- Location: Davis, CA
Re: Latin to Sardinian sound changes
If people are wondering about my conlang project: I'm designing a Latin descendant or quasi-descendant with creole-like characteristics including heavy inflectional simplification, an almost entirely new derivational system, and a massively heterogeneous vocabulary. (Maybe 40% of the lexicon will actually be Latin-derived, with the remainder from such diverse sources as Greek, Arabic, Ancient Egyptian, and Sanskrit.) It's designed for a conculture in my boyfriend's writing that lives in enclaves around much of the world connected by teleportation magic. It now has a thread here.
I'm interested in the sound change history of Sardinian dialects in part because while I'm probably going to not have palatalization of velars or a Romance-like development of Latin's vowel system, I'm still strongly considering deriving palato-alveolar and/or palatal consonants from something in the native vocabulary to make it more likely that they would be retained and not converted to something else in vocabulary from languages that have them.
Relatedly, could anyone recommend any good descriptions of Sardinian dialects, or at least of how they differ phonologically? Descriptions in English would be great, obviously, but I'm willing to muddle through descriptions in other languages.
I'm interested in the sound change history of Sardinian dialects in part because while I'm probably going to not have palatalization of velars or a Romance-like development of Latin's vowel system, I'm still strongly considering deriving palato-alveolar and/or palatal consonants from something in the native vocabulary to make it more likely that they would be retained and not converted to something else in vocabulary from languages that have them.
Relatedly, could anyone recommend any good descriptions of Sardinian dialects, or at least of how they differ phonologically? Descriptions in English would be great, obviously, but I'm willing to muddle through descriptions in other languages.
Last edited by Chengjiang on Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
[ʈʂʰɤŋtɕjɑŋ], or whatever you can comfortably pronounce that's close to that
Formerly known as Primordial Soup
Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.
Formerly known as Primordial Soup
Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.
- Pogostick Man
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Re: Latin to Sardinian sound changes
On the CBB, qwed117 compiled a list of relevant sound changes. The Index Diachronica (and I think the Correspondence Library thread too) has some information on dialectal differences.
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Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
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Index Diachronica PDF v.10.2
Conworld megathread
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
- Chengjiang
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Re: Latin to Sardinian sound changes
Thank you so much! And thanks to qwed117 too!Pogostick Man wrote:On the CBB, qwed117 compiled a list of relevant sound changes. The Index Diachronica (and I think the Correspondence Library thread too) has some information on dialectal differences.
[ʈʂʰɤŋtɕjɑŋ], or whatever you can comfortably pronounce that's close to that
Formerly known as Primordial Soup
Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.
Formerly known as Primordial Soup
Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.