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Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlearn
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Author:  jal [ Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

Two in a row from a YouTube vid: "disingenious" (pronounced the second part as "genius") and "verbatim" (stressed on the first syllable, like Dutch (or, like I think the Dutch is pronounced, I'm not sure anymore)).


JAL

Author:  Jonlang [ Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

Ryusenshi wrote:
For a long time, I thought fuzz had the FOOT vowel.


It probably does somewhere in the north of England, like Manchester and maybe Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

Author:  Soap [ Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

If "disingenious" is an acceptable word, I agree it should rhyme with genius. But I want to see the context .... we don't really need a word for the opposite of "ingenious" , so unless it's clear the speaker did mean exactly that I suspect they meant to use the similar but etymologically distinct "disingenuous".

Author:  jal [ Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

Soap wrote:
If "disingenious" is an acceptable word

Or, I made a typo.


JAL

Author:  linguoboy [ Tue May 08, 2018 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

I didn't have these incorrect pronunciations very long, but I still had to unlearn them: In preparation for visiting New Mexico last month, I read up a bit on Pueblo history. Most of the pueblos have Spanish names, so I pronounced them as I would in Spanish. That worked fine for places like "Laguna", "Sandia", and "San Ildefonso", but led me astray on "Acoma", "Cochiti", and "Isleta".

Acoma comes from the self-designation ʔáák’u and is pronounced with initial stress. (In Spanish, it is spelled Ácoma.) Similarly, Cochiti is from Eastern Keresan Kotyit and also bears initial stress in English, although in this case the Spanish demonym is cochití.

Isleta is transparently derived from Spanish but the /e/ is mapped to English /eh/ rather than English /ey/. The same is true of Jemez (initial stress). Additionally, my local informant pronounced this /ˈhehməz/. I didn't notice that his dialect lacked shwi generally, so I initially parsed this as Hemas. (It doesn't help that the name of a local restaurant, Hema's Kitchen, is pronounced similarly.)

Author:  Soap [ Tue May 08, 2018 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

I was surprised visiting Albuquerque that people use true Spanish pronunciations for many names. I heard Jemez with monophtongs, not normal eng vowels. Perhaps it's a function of how familiar the speaker is, though .... The person speaking was familiar with both Spanish & Navajo.

Author:  linguoboy [ Wed May 09, 2018 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

Soap wrote:
I was surprised visiting Albuquerque that people use true Spanish pronunciations for many names. I heard Jemez with monophtongs, not normal eng vowels. Perhaps it's a function of how familiar the speaker is, though .... The person speaking was familiar with both Spanish & Navajo.

My local informant had very limited familiarity with Spanish. (At one point I drilled him on the paradigm for ser and found he knew less than half the present-tense forms.) Interestingly, almost exactly the same proportion of residents (28%) speak Spanish at home in both New Mexico and California, but I found Californian pronunciations much more likely to diverge from Spanish. I suspect that has something to do with history: the majority of Spanish-speakers in California are recent arrivals whereas New Mexico has such a longstanding Spanish-speaking community that it's preserved its own dialect of colonial Spanish.

Author:  Soap [ Wed May 09, 2018 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

Undine is apparently pronounced to rhyme with "mean", not "mine". I don't think I will change my pronunciation, but I haven't said the word out loud in 20 years and probably won't within the next 20. (It was in a popular video game and an unrelated book I found once.)

Author:  Salmoneus [ Fri May 11, 2018 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

linguoboy wrote:
Soap wrote:
I was surprised visiting Albuquerque that people use true Spanish pronunciations for many names. I heard Jemez with monophtongs, not normal eng vowels. Perhaps it's a function of how familiar the speaker is, though .... The person speaking was familiar with both Spanish & Navajo.

My local informant had very limited familiarity with Spanish. (At one point I drilled him on the paradigm for ser and found he knew less than half the present-tense forms.) Interestingly, almost exactly the same proportion of residents (28%) speak Spanish at home in both New Mexico and California, but I found Californian pronunciations much more likely to diverge from Spanish. I suspect that has something to do with history: the majority of Spanish-speakers in California are recent arrivals whereas New Mexico has such a longstanding Spanish-speaking community that it's preserved its own dialect of colonial Spanish.


Talking of Spanish: I just heard, on a video, somebody pronouncing "Jerez" as /h@rEf/. (not real trill there, just English /r/). In hindsight this is an obvious pronunciation to find, but at the time it kind of threw me for some reason.

Author:  Zaarin [ Fri May 11, 2018 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

Soap wrote:
Undine is apparently pronounced to rhyme with "mean", not "mine". I don't think I will change my pronunciation, but I haven't said the word out loud in 20 years and probably won't within the next 20. (It was in a popular video game and an unrelated book I found once.)

Huh, so it is. Somehow that makes Undine Spragg seem even more unlikable. :p

Author:  Sumelic [ Sun May 13, 2018 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

Soap wrote:
Undine is apparently pronounced to rhyme with "mean", not "mine". I don't think I will change my pronunciation, but I haven't said the word out loud in 20 years and probably won't within the next 20.

Ah, that's news to me as well. Words ending in "-ine" have fairly unpredictable pronunciations (e.g. "divine" vs. "marine" vs. "doctrine"). There seems to be variability in the stressed syllable: MW says " \ ˌən-ˈdēn , ˈən-ˌdēn \". The stress in German, which seems to have been an important source for this word, is apparently on the second syllable. Collins does mention a pronunciation with the "price" vowel in its entry for American English: "ʌnˈdin ; undēnˈ; ˈʌndin ; unˈdēn; ˈʌndaɪn ; unˈdīn".

Soap wrote:
It was in a popular video game


Is this talking about Undertale? There seem to be a number of other games (mainly from Japan) that use "undine" as the name of a fantasy "race", but that was the first thing I thought of when reading your comment. The Undertale character's name seems to be spelled "Undyne" and to be (officially) pronounced with the "price" vowel, interestingly enough. I don't know if this is an intentionally altered pronunciation to make a pun with the words "die" and "undying", or if it is a sign that Toby Fox pronounces the noun "undine" with the "price" vowel.

The "Behind the Name" comments for the name "Undine" mention another unusual pronunciation, "oon-DEE-nee".

Author:  Salmoneus [ Sun May 13, 2018 6:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

I say it as un-deen - both syllables stressed, not sure which is primarily. I've heard the un-dyne pronounciation as well, though.

Author:  yangfiretiger121 [ Sun May 13, 2018 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

Sumelic wrote:
Soap wrote:
Undine is apparently pronounced to rhyme with "mean", not "mine". I don't think I will change my pronunciation, but I haven't said the word out loud in 20 years and probably won't within the next 20.

Ah, that's news to me as well. Words ending in "-ine" have fairly unpredictable pronunciations (e.g. "divine" vs. "marine" vs. "doctrine"). There seems to be variability in the stressed syllable: MW says " \ ˌən-ˈdēn , ˈən-ˌdēn \". The stress in German, which seems to have been an important source for this word, is apparently on the second syllable. Collins does mention a pronunciation with the "price" vowel in its entry for American English: "ʌnˈdin ; undēnˈ; ˈʌndin ; unˈdēn; ˈʌndaɪn ; unˈdīn".

Soap wrote:
It was in a popular video game


Is this talking about Undertale? There seem to be a number of other games (mainly from Japan) that use "undine" as the name of a fantasy "race", but that was the first thing I thought of when reading your comment. The Undertale character's name seems to be spelled "Undyne" and to be (officially) pronounced with the "price" vowel, interestingly enough. I don't know if this is an intentionally altered pronunciation to make a pun with the words "die" and "undying", or if it is a sign that Toby Fox pronounces the noun "undine" with the "price" vowel.

The "Behind the Name" comments for the name "Undine" mention another unusual pronunciation, "oon-DEE-nee".


Don't forget tabletop roleplays, such as Pathfinder.

Author:  Soap [ Sun May 13, 2018 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

Ah, thanks. So my pronunciation is okay after all. Gotta look beyond wiktionary & wikipedia sometimes.

Sumelic wrote:
Is this talking about Undertale?
Nope, much older .... Secret of Mana by Squaresoft in 1992. Very iconic RPG for me, and influenced my conworld a lot, in some ways that Im only just now realizing, such as the red hair of the angel Hintaya, whose personality somewhat resembles the Sprite character from the game ... the Undine is the first of the eight elemental spirits you meet, and for a good part of the game you keep on going back to her temple, so she's the most familiar of the eight as well. Even in the low resolution original game it's clear that the Undine is a female spirit, so that got me hooked on the idea of female elemental spirits. I've even had two recent dreams about Secret of Mana, so even today it's still in my mind.

the Undine and her six magic spells
÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷
Oh, and the book was https://www.amazon.com/Undine-Michael-O ... 0061007188 , which i never got around to reading. it looks like an erotic story but Im told it isnt.

Author:  hwhatting [ Mon May 14, 2018 6:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

Sumelic wrote:
The "Behind the Name" comments for the name "Undine" mention another unusual pronunciation, "oon-DEE-nee".

That seems to be an approximation of the German pronunciation, which is [ʊn'di:nə].

Author:  linguoboy [ Mon May 14, 2018 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

My brothers and I ended up with a lot of spelling pronunciations from D&D: lycanthrope and wyvern with /ih/, lamia with /ah/ or /a/, caecilia with /k/, etc. I think undine might have come with a pronunciation guide, since my natural instinct was to use /iy/ though /ay/ sounds acceptable as well.

Author:  Zaarin [ Mon May 14, 2018 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

I have /ɪ/ in wyvern, probably due to Dragon Age, and Wiktionary lists it as an acceptable pronunciation, though it gives /ai/ first.

Author:  Mornche Geddick [ Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

For years I used to pronounce a certain sports brand to rhyme with "bike".

Author:  kanejam [ Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

Mornche Geddick wrote:
For years I used to pronounce a certain sports brand to rhyme with "bike".

Reminds me of this. :P

Author:  Ryusenshi [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

Yeah, me too. Actually, I think in French it's always /najk/, even in adverts.

Author:  hoeroathlo [ Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

I'm Canadian grew up in a village just off Lake Ontario

how I currently pronounce

Happy /hapeɪ/ (occasionally)
Cereal /səɹɪəl/
yup /jɛp/
he & her /i/ & /ɚ/ (not starting a sentence(I do this with a lot of words staring in /h/))


How I use to pronounce

Bagel /bagəl/
Dragon /dɹəgn̩/
Philosophical /fɪl(ɪ/ɔ)sɪfɪkl/

Author:  Axiem [ Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

No one is reading this board anymore. You probably want to migrate to the new one.

Author:  Vijay [ Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

I still read it. :P But that's still true.

Author:  Avis Noctis [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

Well, I don't see an alternative thread and this pronunciation was really odd, so I'll just post it: 4-year-old me used to pronounce 'computer' as /pʰə.'lu.lu/.

Come to think of it, my ability to understand speakers of languages I'm trying to learn still isn't that good.

Author:  Axiem [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea

There is no new thread

WE HAVE MOVED

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