Negation on Middle Arabic

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nykeron
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Negation on Middle Arabic

Post by nykeron »

Hello!

I am currently working on a a Middle Arabic (spoken media discourse) corpus.

It's a very interesting case of code-switching in a continuum where the Matrix language is without any doubt the dialect but where you can find features from MSA (Standard) emerging.
Even though on a first look one would say that the presence of the Standard is aleatory, on a second look one can say that actually the standard recurrences are mostly found in phrases with a particular environment that needs a stylistic stratagem (here system code switching), and in NEGATIONS.
Actually, most of the negative verbs use the standard form (the la + non-past without prefix for the present and lam+ non-past for the past, note that ALL terminations are dropped).
My theory is that negations need the standard form as they have to mark their exception, whereas the "normal" actions use only the dialectal form because they show the norm. This would actually follow the theory that is postulated for the other non-negative-standard forms as stylistic exceptions.

What do you think?

nykeron
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Re: Negation on Middle Arabic

Post by nykeron »

Not a lot of answers :(

me sad

Vijay
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Re: Negation on Middle Arabic

Post by Vijay »

What can I say, we're all just a buncha dumb dodos! :P

Yng
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Re: Negation on Middle Arabic

Post by Yng »

By 'Middle Arabic' what do you mean? An intermediate between the standard and dialects? Sorry, your initial post is not very easy to understand!
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية

tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!

short texts in Cuhbi

Risha Cuhbi grammar

nykeron
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Re: Negation on Middle Arabic

Post by nykeron »

In arabic dialectology and linguistics, middle arabic is the common term for the level that mixes features (lexical, morphology and syntax) of both dialects and MSA. It is usually an instable system but it is very recurrent in public speeches and in television.

Vijay
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Re: Negation on Middle Arabic

Post by Vijay »

So analogous to "mesolects" in the creole continuum maybe?

nykeron
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Re: Negation on Middle Arabic

Post by nykeron »

well yeah...

Arabic scholars use the term "middle arabic" for the arabic variety of this phenomenon. Even though it is pretty a huge range of varieties to be honest...

Yng
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Re: Negation on Middle Arabic

Post by Yng »

nykeron wrote:In arabic dialectology and linguistics, middle arabic is the common term for the level that mixes features (lexical, morphology and syntax) of both dialects and MSA. It is usually an instable system but it is very recurrent in public speeches and in television.
Really? I've only ever heard 'Middle Arabic' used to describe the colloquial of the middle ages (as opposed to classical and modern varieties). But a brief google search reveals that this might be an English translation of العربية الوسطى which I would translate as 'intermediate Arabic' instead (though that has its own google problems).
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية

tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!

short texts in Cuhbi

Risha Cuhbi grammar

nykeron
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Re: Negation on Middle Arabic

Post by nykeron »

Well the problem with arabic is that you would find a lot of mixed terms:
MSA is often called Classical Arabic by some scholars when others argue that there's a huge difference between Quranic, Classical and Standard arabic. Middle Arabic is often called mixed arabic, and the term, as you pointed out, can be referred to Middle Age Arabic as well.

You also have "schools of thought" of how you have to call the levels of this language. and dialects.
In my school there's a huge (HUGE) debate on how "MSA" has to be called (in french): "arabe littéraire" or "arabe littéral"? And dialects are really dialects (so calling them levantine dialect" or should we say "levantine arabic" or "Levantine" tout court?

For my paper I've been told to use "Standard, Dialect and Middle" in both English and French as it's the easier way to understand (Standard, Dialecte, Moyen-Arabe/ Arabe Moyen), and so do other scholars.

allugha al mutawassita is the arabic term, but you can also find al lahja al bayda2, al lugha al makhluta, 3ammyat almuthaqqafîn ...

Yng
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Re: Negation on Middle Arabic

Post by Yng »

Yeah, though I would use all of these to refer to different things! Terminology is contentious.

Anyway, so now I know what you're talking about, what does 'aleatory' mean in this context?
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية

tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!

short texts in Cuhbi

Risha Cuhbi grammar

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Arzena
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Re: Negation on Middle Arabic

Post by Arzena »

The term 3āmmiyya muthaqqafa has been mentioned here and it does sound like what OP is referring to.

In my experience with Moroccans, MSA negators seem to be preserved with more scrutiny when they speak with me in MSA. This contrasts to my experiences with Egyptians who tend to speak with MSA vocabulary and the negator circumflex ma…š. In this limited experience, I have gotten the since that Moroccans are trying to impress me with their knowledge of MSA (completely avoiding constructions from Moroccan Arabic) whereas Egyptians are more at ease with using Egyptian Arabic in their MSA.

For example, I would expect an Egyptian speaking 3āmmiyya muthaqqafa to use verbal markers like b- and function words like zay 'like, as' and keda 'thus'. In contrast, I have never heard a Moroccan say the Moroccan Arabic equivalents bħal and hakka in MSA dialogs. dārija muthaqqafa does not seem to exist at all.
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