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zompist bboard :: View topic - Haida and Na-Dene
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Haida and Na-Dene
http://www.incatena.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44133
Page 1 of 7

Author:  Zaarin [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Haida and Na-Dene

I am aware that the Haida language has been more or less universally accepted to not belong to Na-Dene. What I'm wondering is, what about the Haida people? Since the original proposal of Na-Dene, it has been found that they represent a population distinct from Native Americans proper (who arrived earlier) and from the Eskimo-Aleut (who arrived later). But what about the Haida? Are they Native American proper or Na-Dene? Or perhaps a distinct population group? A quick Google search didn't reveal anything scientifically grounded.

Author:  Vlürch [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene

If I remember correctly, I think I read somewhere once that they originally came from Northeast Asia and shared ancestry with the Ainu, but that's probably just me mixing them up with some other ethnic group since I remember clearly that throat singing was somehow relevant but I can't find anything about the Haida having ever had any kind of tradition of throat singing... although I did find something about how no outsider has ever heard traditional Haida music, but well. So yeah, I'm probably mixing up the Haida and Inuits, since I don't really have much interest in any languages/culture/history of the Americas.

One thing, though, that I absolutely have to cling to is how "language" in Haida is "kil". I mean, that's some straight-up Ural-Altaic shit right there; Mongolian "хэл", Finnish "kieli", Estonian "keel", Chuvash "чĕлхе", Kazakh "til", Turkish "dil", etc. I know it's probably a coincidence, but I think it's still interesting. If the Haida came from Northeast Asia, it could well be a loanword from the Mongols if they didn't originally have a word for language, but no one would ever even consider that a serious possibility. I don't know if I do either.

Author:  Zaarin [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  Richard W [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  Vlürch [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  Vijay [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  Zaarin [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  Vlürch [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  Vijay [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  8Deer [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  CatDoom [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  zompist [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  Salmoneus [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  gach [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  Vlürch [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  zompist [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  Salmoneus [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  zompist [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  Xephyr [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  zompist [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene

Honestly I don't know much about reindeer herding, but for discussing language group expansion, the question is whether it allows empires, as horse nomadism does.

Author:  gach [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene

Right, it's about as easy to go to war with reindeer as it's with fish nets or bear traps. Reindeer herding can give you a competitive edge over neighbours who don't have it but it's also a technology that's not too hard to adopt. As a result, it's quite likely that it'll soon diffuse to your linguistically unrelated neighbours and give them similar advantages for expansion than what you have.

Author:  8Deer [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene

My understanding is that reindeer domestication happened relatively late, so maybe there just hasn't been enough time for reindeer-herding pastoralists to spread their languages.

Author:  Zaarin [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  Xephyr [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


Author:  8Deer [ Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Haida and Na-Dene


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