Deponent verbs in languages with periphrastic passives

[WeepingElf]

Interesting discussion, but I have taken the original idea to the grave. The idea was that various non-Albic Hesperic languages would have deponents that continue Proto-Hesperic stative verbs (Proto-Hesperic, like Old Albic, was active-stative, but most other Hesperic languages shifted towards an accusative alignment). I have decided that only one language, which has a synthetic passive, has such deponents, while those that have only a periphrastic passive don't. In at least one of them, the continuation of the Proto-Hesperic stative class is the class of "rigid verbs", which do not take person/number marking, while the "flexible verbs" do.

[Curlyjimsam]

On the matter of "be born" - I've never thought of it as deponent before, but it does seem to me that this might be a reasonable label. (Though diachronically, of course, it's just a normal passive.) I suppose part of the reason we don't think of it as deponent might be that it's something of a one-off exception, whereas it's only really useful to talk of "deponents" when you've got a whole class of them.

[Richard W]

Possibly the form of the periphrasis matters. The Romance reflexive also functions as a passive, and that is where Romance languages have the equivalent of deponent verbs. In fact, French il se lave les mains 'he washes his hands' looks very much like the rare Latin category of transitive deponent verbs.

There are a number of English verbs relating to emotions towards an act that seem to have subtly different meanings between the active and the passive, such as surprise and worry. The verb worry has three different forms - active transitive, active intransitive and passive, with the two active forms being closest in meaning.

[Frislander]

Possibly the form of the periphrasis matters. The Romance reflexive also functions as a passive, and that is where Romance languages have the equivalent of deponent verbs. In fact, French il se lave les mains 'he washes his hands' looks very much like the rare Latin category of transitive deponent verbs.

I see what you get with the reflexive being like a deponent, but what in that construction can be said to be passive? And I wouldn't be surprised if there were languages out there that used reflexives with self-affected body parts like this, as a body part may be seen as equally "part of you" as "yourself", c.f. "il se lave les mains" vs. "il lave la voiture".

[Richard W]

I see what you get with the reflexive being like a deponent, but what in that construction can be said to be passive?

il se lave.

Remember that in French, the reflexive form can be used to convey the passive meaning.