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zompist bboard • View topic - Verbal nouns

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 Post subject: Verbal nouns
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 11:24 am 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:51 pm
Posts: 34
In English, several verbal nouns referring to a process can also be used to refer to its outcome. Examples:

Creation
Building
Painting
Drawing
Sculpture
Invention
Innovation
Computation
Calculation
Entrance

This does not seem to be regular or productive. Of note, manufacturing is only the process, and the outcome is a manufacture. Similarly, construction vs. structure. Making and disruption refer only to the process (something that's been invented is an invention, but something that's been disrupted is not a disruption). Production can refer to an arbitrary process, and can also refer to the outcome in creative areas, such as theater: a film is a production, an airplane is a product.

In Hebrew, the same is true. In the form pa'al, the verbal noun is pe'ila or pe'ula, where the e is epenthetic and drops in nearly all circumstances, depending on sonority hierarchy. In the form pi'el, it is pi'ul. In the form hif'il, it is haf'ala. In the form nif'al, it is again pe'ila, with epenthetic e. We then have:

yatsar (make, create) -> yetsira, which means both the act of making something and the resulting product
khishev (compute, calculate) -> khishuv, which means both the act of computing and the resulting computation
tsiyer (draw, paint) -> tsiyur, which means both the act of painting or drawing and the resulting work of art
hemtsi (invent), root MTsʔ -> hamtsa'a, which means both the act of inventing and the resulting invention
nichnas (enter) -> knisa, which means both the act of entering and a door or other portal through which one enters

Marginally, the noun referring to a structure, binyan, can also be used for construction in the abstract sense of the construction industry, but the construction of the building uses the regular verbal noun bnia (the verb to build is bana, root BNH).

As in English, this is not consistent. Thus, from pisel, to sculpt, we get pisul, which invariably means the act of sculpting, whereas the final product is called pesel.

Does this pattern exist in other languages? How common is it? In neither English nor Hebrew is it productive.


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 Post subject: Re: Verbal nouns
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 1:31 pm 
Smeric
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Location: Britannia
As far as I know, the same is true generally in Indo-European, though given the Hebrew example, I am tempted to wonder if it's not a general fact that action nouns can also be result nouns.


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 Post subject: Re: Verbal nouns
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:33 pm 
Sanno
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I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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 Post subject: Re: Verbal nouns
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 9:37 pm 
Smeric
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Posts: 1723
Location: Tokyo
Japanese is all over the place with nominalized verbs:

Some represent the action itself:

heru decrease (v)
heri decrease (n); reduction

uketoru receive
uketori recept (the act of receiving of something, not the paper)

wa o nageru throw a ring
wanage ring toss (game)

Sometimes it's the subject of an intransitive verb:
kōru freeze
kōri ice

enpitsu o kezuru sharpen a pencil
enpitsukezuri pencil sharpener

Sometimes it's the object or something similar, which could in some cases be considered the product, but usually not:
hanasu speak
hanashi conversation/story

kazaru decorate
kazari decoration

kiru wear
-gi suffix for types of clothing

tsuzuru spell
tsuzuri spelling

Then there are verbalized nouns.

These can often indicate the process/act or result:
sotsugyō graduation
sotsugyō suru graduate

hakken discovery
hakken suru discover

ōpun opening (of a store, etc., for the first time)
ōpun suru open (a store, etc., for the first time)

I don't know what to make of it. Just whatever word seems most closely associated with the verb, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Verbal nouns
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 1:59 am 
Lebom
Lebom

Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 194
Location: Oslo, Norway
In North Germanic some verbal nouns are formed with the suffix -ning(ur) instead of the normal -ing(ur) to indicate the outcome instead of the process. I believe this is a North Germanic innovation that originated with verbs whose stems already end in -n.

Examples in Norwegian:
bygging - the act of building, bygning - a finished building
lading - the act of charging, ladning - a charge/load
holding - the act of holding, holdning - an attitude

Most verbal nouns just take -ing like in English though. The -ning suffix isn't productive, at least not IMD.


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 Post subject: Re: Verbal nouns
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:11 am 
Smeric
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 Post subject: Re: Verbal nouns
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 12:38 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:16 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Verbal nouns
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 1:53 pm 
Lebom
Lebom

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 Post subject: Re: Verbal nouns
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 3:14 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:16 pm
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Location: Sweden


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 Post subject: Re: Verbal nouns
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 1:02 pm 
Smeric
Smeric

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 Post subject: Re: Verbal nouns
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 4:27 pm 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:16 pm
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Location: Sweden


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 Post subject: Re: Verbal nouns
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 10:01 am 
Sanci
Sanci

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:51 pm
Posts: 34
Bumping this to ask a different question about factitives. In Hebrew and English, they're quite often identical to verbal nouns describing process, as I noted in the OP. In German and Swedish, they're (sometimes) distinguished.

Is there any language in which factitives are formed from passive participles? In that case, a building would be rendered as "a built," a painting as "a painted," an invention as "an invented," and so on.


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 Post subject: Re: Verbal nouns
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 1:16 am 
Lebom
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