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zompist bboard • View topic - Past participles ending in /ən/ in dialectal English

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:17 am 
Sumerul
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I have commented on this before, but I have noticed a pattern where a past participle in English will have the suffix -/ən/ attached if it is being used as part of phrasal verb. From talking to people about it, people who normally would not use this affix in places still in many cases find its use natural when the verb is part of a phrasal verb. E.g. *"I have broughten the ketchup." but "I was broughten up as a Catholic" or *"Have you dranken your milk today" but "I have already dranken up my milk". The thing is, I have no idea what this affix is actually marking here; these are already past participles (and drank used as a past participle is obvious as such from context), and the affix is not used with past participles in general by most people. (I use them more generally, but that is probably an idiosyncrasy of my speech.)

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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


Last edited by Travis B. on Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:48 am 
Smeric
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I have never heard of such a thing, but it sounds like just double-marking to me. Like how children has what are historically two plural markers instead of just one (both the <r> and the <en>).


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:08 pm 
Smeric
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My grandparents (rural southwestern New York) regularly use "boughten" as the past participle of "buy" and it irks me incredibly. When my mom spends a lot of time around them, she picks it up as well, but loses it when she hasn't been around them in a while. I can't say I've heard it attached to other words, however.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:02 pm 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:29 pm 
Sumerul
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It obviously is double marking (since -/ən/ is already a past participle ending), but my question is why, in most peoples' speech here, would only past participles in phrasal verbs be so double-marked?

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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:14 pm 
Smeric
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Because they don't (intuitively) realize that those are already past participles?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:55 pm 
Boardlord
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My guess: leakage from "gotten", which also adds a distinction on top of the past participle. ("I've got money" means I have money; "I've gotten money" means I recently acquired it.)

(Perhaps a different distinction than the one in your examples, but still a good model.)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:36 pm 
Sumerul
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Location: Milwaukee, US

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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:15 pm 
Avisaru
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So is this mostly a US phenomenon? What's the geographic distribution of this? I can't say I've noticed this but I will for sure now. (I never noticed "youse" until I read an article about it).

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:37 pm 
Sumerul
Sumerul

Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
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Location: Milwaukee, US
I live in southeastern WIsconsin, and the only other places I have lived are Madison, Wisconsin and Maryland (DC area). Madison gets too many transplants from southeastern Wisconsin to be easily able to tell it apart, while on the other hand I do not remember ever hearing this out in Maryland.

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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:45 pm 
Sanno
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:42 pm 
Smeric
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