Cluster reduction of /st/ and /nd/ in English

Discussion of natural languages, or language in general.
Post Reply
Travis B.
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 3570
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Location: Milwaukee, US

Cluster reduction of /st/ and /nd/ in English

Post by Travis B. »

Around here the reduction of the clusters /st/ and /nd/, when not broken by morpheme boundaries, is the norm, with final /st/ becoming [s], medial /st/ becoming [sʲː], final /nd/ becoming [n], and medial /nd/ becoming [n] or even just vowel nasalization. In some individuals' speech even initial /st/ is reduced, as [sʲ]. I know that this is found in other English varieties at least in the word and. However, I do not have a good picture of how widespread (or not) this actually is. So is anyone else aware of whether this is present in other English varieties?
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.

Vijay
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2244
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:25 pm
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Re: Cluster reduction of /st/ and /nd/ in English

Post by Vijay »

I think everything but that palatalization is pretty common all over North America.

User avatar
Viktor77
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:27 pm
Location: Memphis, Tennessee

Re: Cluster reduction of /st/ and /nd/ in English

Post by Viktor77 »

Vijay wrote:I think everything but that palatalization is pretty common all over North America.
Yea, reduced initial 'st' seems weird to me and we practically speak close to the same dialect. Can you give an example?
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

Travis B.
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 3570
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Location: Milwaukee, US

Re: Cluster reduction of /st/ and /nd/ in English

Post by Travis B. »

Viktor77 wrote:
Vijay wrote:I think everything but that palatalization is pretty common all over North America.
Yea, reduced initial 'st' seems weird to me and we practically speak close to the same dialect. Can you give an example?
Any word starting with /st/, but it is hard for me to give an example because I don't have this, and neither do the people I personally interact with closely.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.

User avatar
Soap
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1228
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 2:57 pm
Location: Scattered disc
Contact:

Re: Cluster reduction of /st/ and /nd/ in English

Post by Soap »

Those who reduce word-final /st/ to /s/ often use nonstandard plurals with /səz/ rather than just letting it be /s/. I had a boss who consistently said "texes" (/tɛksəz/) for "texts" (as in text messages). Wikipedia says this is a feature of AAVE but seems to be talking about a wider consonant cluster reduction that goes beyond just the single example of /st/. My boss was not black and I dont think he ever said things like "dess" for desk.
Sunàqʷa the Sea Lamprey says:
Image

Travis B.
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 3570
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Location: Milwaukee, US

Re: Cluster reduction of /st/ and /nd/ in English

Post by Travis B. »

I also sporadically reduce final /sk/ to [s] (or do so consistently in the case of ask). Also note that plurals of words ending in /st/ for me are very frequently realized as [sʲː].
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.

User avatar
linguoboy
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:00 am
Location: Rogers Park/Evanston

Re: Cluster reduction of /st/ and /nd/ in English

Post by linguoboy »

Soap wrote:Those who reduce word-final /st/ to /s/ often use nonstandard plurals with /səz/ rather than just letting it be /s/. I had a boss who consistently said "texes" (/tɛksəz/) for "texts" (as in text messages).
I don't hear this as often, but we did have a roofer a few years back who used "joices" as the plural of "joist".

Post Reply