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zompist bboard • View topic - Kinship: children of cousins?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:26 am 
Sanci
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I've never seen a kinship chart that includes this particular relationship (they only ever seem to include children of siblings), so I wondered the obvious: does any natural language have dedicated terms for children of cousins?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:19 am 
Sanno
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In English, and I believe in most European languages, they are called "cousins". Although admittedly that usage is declining - in some places more rapidly than others - with the rise of more nuclear families.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:47 am 
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Children of your cousins are, more technically, your "first cousins once removed".

Those kids, and your own kids, are "second cousins". (I.e. second cousins are people whose parents are first cousins.)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:18 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:19 pm 
Smeric
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Wait, can first cousins once removed still be called first cousins (without further qualification)? :o


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:36 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:48 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:25 pm 
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is how I finally figured out how the whole "Mth cousin Nth removed" thing works in English. It's actually a pretty logical system: count up on both sides to the most recent common ancestor; the minimum count is M, the difference is N.

Also, is pretty cool, and I'd recommend reading through it.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:04 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:17 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:25 pm 
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If I were, say, introducing someone to a mixed group of my first cousins and their children (and/or my cousins once removed who are my parents' first cousins, and/or second cousins and their children), I would say "These are my cousins." If instead, I was introducing a specific "cousin" to someone, I would probably specify if they are first or second cousin or if there were any removes. So for example, I might say, "This is my cousin once removed, T____. She's my mom's cousin."

But I also tend to call that individual "Cousin T____" in casual conversations.or when it's not important to know she isn't my first cousin specifically. Likewise, I have "Cousin(once removed) K____" who's kids are also "my cousins" even though his children are my second cousins. And likely, if I ever got to know any of their children, they would also be "Cousins". So I understand where cousin being a generic term for "this person and I trace our lineage back to a common ancestor at some point" comes from, but at the same time I would still disambiguate if necessary.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:43 am 
Lebom
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In Chinese, a compound of "Cousin-Nephew/Niece" is used, but the actual component differs depending on whether it's an agnatic cousin (agnatic - 堂 tang2 / otherwise - 表 biao3), the gender of the cousin (male - 姪 or 侄 zhi2 / female - 甥 sheng1), and the gender of the said person (male - ø / female - 女 nü3)

Not everyone use this set of rules though. For some, the first criterion checks for your relation with the said person, not their parents, effectively invalidating 堂甥, or in other words, checks if you and the said person share the same surname. Yet others check if you belong to the same household, though it's rare nowadays with the decline of big families.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:13 am 
Avisaru
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In Dutch we have the words achterneef and achternicht for this. Their literal meanings are "behind-male.cousin" and "behind-female.cousin" respectively.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:01 am 
Sanci
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I can't wrap my head around the names of relatives even in Finnish, so English (let alone any other language) makes me feel like an idiot (probably because I am one). Anyway, Wiktionary lists in the translations for "first cousin once removed" the Altai word шаны, which I then googled and found that includes it as well along with шанызы, both translated as двоюродный племянник (also on Wiktionary as a translation for "first cousin once removed"), which apparently means "uncle's grandson". I don't know if an uncle's grandson is the same as a cousin's son, though, since I'm literally that ridiculously stupid... :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:13 pm 
Smeric
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It is.


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