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zompist bboard :: View topic - Palatalization/velarization in Irish
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Palatalization/velarization in Irish
http://www.incatena.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45150
Page 1 of 1

Author:  yangfiretiger121 [ Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Palatalization/velarization in Irish

Why are Seán ([ʃɔːnˠ]) and Séan ([ʃeːnˠ]) clearly palatalized in Irish? I don't think Shawn and Shane are palatalized in English.

Edit: Changed name to reflect info in linguoboy's most recent post while preserving the text above as is for posterity.

Author:  Vijay [ Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Palatalization in Irish

Because Irish contrasts palatalized and unpalatalized consonants and English doesn't?

Author:  linguoboy [ Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Palatalization in Irish

I don't understand the question. Irish palatalised /s/ is realised as an palato-alveoar fricative [ʃ]. If it weren't palatalised, it would be [sˠ], a velarised alveolar sibilant.

The fact that the English contrast of /ʃ/ and /s/ isn't one of systematic palatalisation isn't at all relevant to Irish.

Author:  yangfiretiger121 [ Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Palatalization in Irish

The question's about the final <n> in the names. I could be wrong, but I don't think Shawn or Shane has a palatalized <n> in English. If Wikipedia is accurate, Seán and Séan have their final <n> palatalized in Irish.

Author:  linguoboy [ Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Palatalization in Irish


Author:  yangfiretiger121 [ Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Palatalization/velarization in Irish

I knew what it was telling me. I just wasn't entirely paying attention to my typing when I created the topic or made my previous post. Exactly, why is Seán's final <n> velarized in Irish? Same goes for a Sheánin's last <n> being palatalized. I think I missed the faux pas because I was too wrapped up in waiting for initial replies. However, I have no clue why I didn't correct it with my second post and kept using the incorrect term until someone pointed it out to me.

Author:  linguoboy [ Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Palatalization/velarization in Irish


Author:  Salmoneus [ Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Palatalization in Irish


Author:  linguoboy [ Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Palatalization in Irish


Author:  Vijay [ Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Palatalization/velarization in Irish


Author:  linguoboy [ Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Palatalization/velarization in Irish


Author:  Salmoneus [ Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Palatalization/velarization in Irish

GRMA!

(another thing to fail to remember...)

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