The Contradictory Feelings Thread

[Pthagnar]

Yes, the freedom, freedom from a mind. You're right it's beyond exhausting; it's beyond everything.

What freedom? The only place freedom exists is in minds -- rocks are not free! Tell me one thing which is free that is not a mind!

And leave out the shit about the wonder of going beyond everything. You're saying you're quite upset by the world moving a little beyond you, the passage of a few years, the moving around of a few bits of terrestrial scenery from how they used to be and which you got used to. But in death, you move BEYOND EVERYTHING and... this is now good? No, that sadness and fear you have is an intimation of mortality, and is why death is scary. All the idealist New Age, New Thought, Brothers-We-Enter-Into-A-Transformative-Age-of-Wonders, Death-Is-a-Great-Adventure woo-woo preaching about death which passes for deep thought in this age, and which you've bought into ignores that.

But current feelings towards something so unknown can and do vary.

This is very true -- for example, it is very easy to feel contemptuous of a terrifying thing when you are a long way away from it, and mighty forces are protecting you from it. When you can say "I don't want to stop feeling young" and still be young enough for the implications of this to fail to sink in, and when your mind is filled with the pablum of hucksters who think that if you wish hard enough, magic will come true, and that if you distract enough people from something, then that's as good as the thing stopping from happening.

[ol bofosh]

you mean you *won't* be scared of being dead because you won't be around to experience it -- you can still be afraid of annihilation right now, and precisely because you *are* around to contemplate it. [although I don't have your faith in annihilation, either]

Right. It gives me a sort of peace of mind to think that I won't be around to experience my non-existence.

[Pthagnar]

Right. It gives me a sort of peace of mind to think that I won't be around to experience my non-existence.

but in the meantime...

[ol bofosh]

Right. It gives me a sort of peace of mind to think that I won't be around to experience my non-existence.

but in the meantime...

I'll try not to do anything too dangerous.

[Pthagnar]

okay, so you're scared, but not blubbering about it, which is fine.

ean is the one who is saying that he's not scared, why, are you scared? what's to be scared about, civilisation is shit anyway everything is shit abloobloo i don't want to grow up

[Thry]

But in death, you move BEYOND EVERYTHING and... this is now good?

"good"?

Don't blur meanings with 'beyond', I said I'm sad about not feeling within my time (which means little more than nostalgia); a fear of my own mortality is hardly underlying: Freedom from a mind is not meaningless, you know what it means, we infer that such a state exists, and I'm looking forward to it as my ultimate fate after living life.

And yes I know things which are not minds which are free. My aunt's blanket is free from my hamster's teeth. omgpolysemy

Which is it, you genuinely think no human being can think like that? That there are no neuronal configurations that can cause such an opinion? Or you're arguing that people who believe that are all deluded and misunderstand death? That it's against biological human nature? That all must be suicidal?

civilisation is shit anyway everything is shit abloobloo i don't want to grow up

Yes, I'd gladly not age. I'd not gladly give up my right to die.

[Pthagnar]

no, i *don't* have any idea what 'freedom from mind' might mean, i can infer no such thing, argument-via-pun is the worst argument, death is not a right, it is certain, here's a cock: 8====D

[Thry]

Freedom from a mind is an expression I'm using which means "absence of a mind", "absence of consciousness", "nothingness". I figured you'd figure that out.

Fuck you and your cock and your absolutism on the value of argumenta ad punem.

Death as a right is a philosophical and legal concept (i.e. euthanasia). Some consider it a sin, there are laws about it, and humans in general make a big fuss about it. Maybe it's hard to believe but when I use words I tend to give them meaning.

[Pthagnar]

did anybody ever tell you you're a very fashionable person?

[Thry]

No, but then again people don't usually talk to me in English. Can you give me the Spanish equivalent?

[Pthagnar]

uh i think it's like besame el culo

[Thry]

Then nope, no one told me I'm fashionable.

[Pthagnar]

v. revealing, thank you

[Thry]

You're welcome. What does it reveal to you?

[ol bofosh]

Hey, I'm getting the sense of lack of contradictory feelings. There's a clarity that just doesn't belong here. XD

[Thry]

He contradicts me!

[rotting bones]

i don't like the "adult" duties/stages of life/... point of view. tbh, that one makes me want to kill myself. in fact, that's the view that got me depressed enough that i had to think about these things in the first place.

you know why i don't want to die? because i am already dead, plus something more. what i have here is the corpse that will be rotting in the grave, only it's walking around and experiencing all the weirdness and awesomeness this world has to offer. freaking. amazing. if i think of life as a shorthand for "status: dead+", i see that i don't want the "+" to go away. i call that humanism. if at all possible, i want to upgrade my status (and of those around me) to "dead++". that's transhumanism.

ps. and if you need an immediate reason to love life, just remember that pessimism may be coldly fashionable, but sincere optimism can be downright sexy. :p

[rotting bones]

ean and company: if you don't like your life, that is a real problem demanding actual solutions. you should figure out what your interests are, what it is exactly that you dislike, etc, and do something about it.

Plus, most of those seven billion people don't belong to your civilisation, which is the one that is relevant to you.

that is interesting. if my roots, contacts, etc, are all in the conservative indian muslim community, but my inclinations favor the west, in which civilization would you say my duty lies?

[ol bofosh]

He contradicts me!

And you have contradictory feelings about that? Love-hate? Bored-excited?

ean and company: if you don't like your life, that is a real problem demanding actual solutions. you should figure out what your interests are, what it is exactly that you dislike, etc, and do something about it.

Right, like I said before, create it! There're no preset roles for life, except dead-end ones.

Plus, most of those seven billion people don't belong to your civilisation, which is the one that is relevant to you.

that is interesting. if my roots, contacts, etc, are all in the conservative indian muslim community, but my inclinations favor the west, in which civilization would you say my duty lies?[/quote][/quote]

British expat living in Catalonia and/or Spain with my Swiss girlfriend and her family. I'm culturally expanded you might say, lol.

[Pthagnar]

that is interesting. if my roots, contacts, etc, are all in the conservative indian muslim community, but my inclinations favor the west, in which civilization would you say my duty lies?

with the West! Assuming you make a good Westerner!

[Radius Solis]

Oh, I think we've seen enough of this ham/bones/whatever guy to be pretty sure he's got a place for himself in the West if he wants it. He might have a touch of classic Indian brain fever to him - the sort that brings us mathematical-mysticism wackos and everything-comes-from-Sanskrit crackpots - but only a touch.

Come, join us, live in the free world and be an individual with a free and meaningf-COUGH where everyone's sane-CHOKE you'll be fr-COUGH-SPLUTTER democr-HACK-COUGH-GAG-CHOKE-RIGORMORTIS

[Travis B.]

I am not exactly sure if this is the best place for this, but I am putting it here because I really am not sure of a better place to put it.

I am confused about something my mom very recently said. She used the words my psychiatrist, which for most people would mean that they had a psychiatrist - but for her, with the way she used it, it could very well have referred to a coworker, since she is a therapist and works with psychiatrists on a daily basis, even though that still is a pretty odd way to refer to a coworker. (She said that said psychiatrist gave her a book on the workings of various psych meds biologically, which she had been reading during breaks at her work.)

The reason why this is significant is that she had in the past been pretty unstable in the past, with her clearly having symptoms of some mood disorder (including irritability and a terrible temper in certain moods), and her herself (probably rightly so) suggesting she belonged somewhere on the bipolar spectrum (which only made sense considering the family history, which she was well aware of). But this past year she largely stabilized without any clear explanation, and mostly stopped mentioning having any mood symptoms. She had never expressed any interest in seeing a psychiatrist, but I could not help but wonder if she had changed her mind and simply never told any of us (especially since with her schedule she could work in office visits without anyone else knowing).

For a while I was thinking this was just wishful thinking, that this was merely a remission and that she would destabilize sooner or later and life would return to the usual with her (a major misgiving I had with moving back home as she could be very difficult to be around in the past). But now, with this, I cannot help but wonder if it was not merely wishful thinking, even though I cannot bring myself to just ask her directly, and it does not seem appropriate to go through her stuff to see what medications she may be on. Still, there is part of me that says that obviously she was just talking about a coworker, if in a weirdly-worded way, and that this is still wishful thinking nonetheless.

[Astraios]

I actually have motivation to write my exam. This is awesome, but slightly scary because I'm suspicious of where it's come from. Maybe it's because it's an exam in Semitic Linguistics, which is about the sexiest thing an exam can be in.

Also I like the idea of writing about linguistics in Hebrew, because that's fun and makes me feel clever, but since I don't have that much time in which to do it, I'm not sure if it's feasible.

[Izambri]

The Catalan version of Robert Graves' I, Claudius is out of stock. Grrr...




...fortunately, we have, for the first time, a Catalan translation of John Williams' Augustus, and a version of Machiavelli's The Prince!

[Izambri]

Fried soybean tastes exactly the way I was expecting.