The Innovative Usage Thread

[Ser]

I bet it's actually [tSa"ki4a].

[Imralu]

SURVEY TIME!

a) It's thawing.
acceptable
b) It's unthawing.
NO. KILL IT WITH BEES.
c) It's thawing out.
acceptable.

though I would probably say I was "thawing out" something, and that the thing itself was just "thawing". But that might be the Gremlin talking

i'm thawing out some ground beef
the beef is thawing

hmm....

This.

[Thry]

Colombians: Why [dZa.ki.ra] and not [Sa.ki.ra] for Shakira?

omfg really? In Spain people go [sa.'ki.4a] at most... but who is able, says [Sa.'ki.4a].

Actually someone may say chakira but that's ew xD.

[Viktor77]

I bet it's actually [tSa"ki4a].

Ok, that makes some more sense. They do that here, too, Michigan [mi.tSi.gan].

[----]

Speaking of Spanish-speaking people speaking English in a different way than others, I had a classmate from Mexico once who I heard pronounce the word 'smoothie' [ˈsmuɾi]. I thought that was pretty interesting.

[Ser]

Colombians: Why [dZa.ki.ra] and not [Sa.ki.ra] for Shakira?

omfg really? In Spain people go [sa.'ki.4a] at most... but who is able, says [Sa.'ki.4a].

Actually someone may say chakira but that's ew xD.

I've never heard that name with [s]. It's always [tS] or if you're able to [S]. "Sakira" would make me think it's something related to the verb sacar.

Speaking of Spanish-speaking people speaking English in a different way than others, I had a classmate from Mexico once who I heard pronounce the word 'smoothie' [ˈsmuɾi]. I thought that was pretty interesting.

It's likely some extension of t-flapping to *[smuti]...

[----]

That's what I thought too, except I figured the underlying form was *smudi.

[Thry]

Colombians: Why [dZa.ki.ra] and not [Sa.ki.ra] for Shakira?

omfg really? In Spain people go [sa.'ki.4a] at most... but who is able, says [Sa.'ki.4a].

Actually someone may say chakira but that's ew xD.

I've never heard that name with [s]. It's always [tS] or if you're able to [S]. "Sakira" would make me think it's something related to the verb sacar.

Speaking of Spanish-speaking people speaking English in a different way than others, I had a classmate from Mexico once who I heard pronounce the word 'smoothie' [ˈsmuɾi]. I thought that was pretty interesting.

It's likely some extension of t-flapping to *[smuti]...

Yep but in Spain the substitution for [S] sometimes is /s/ (may be related to the fact that our /s/ is more alveolar, something Torco pointed out to me).

[Ser]

Yep but in Spain the substitution for [S] sometimes is /s/ (may be related to the fact that our /s/ is more alveolar, something Torco pointed out to me).

Oh, yes. I forgot your /s/ is usually quite [S]-y anyway. xD

Chicosh, ahora vamosh a [X::]uguetear un poco.

[finlay]

I remember ʃ being one of the difficult sounds to teach to Spanish students. They'd always say "see" for "she" (and half the time they'd forget it or mix it up with "he" anyway).

[Thry]

I remember ʃ being one of the difficult sounds to teach to Spanish students. They'd always say "see" for "she" (and half the time they'd forget it or mix it up with "he" anyway).

Yep, it's not a full English [ʃ].

Oh, yes. I forgot your /s/ is usually quite [S]-y anyway. xD

Chicosh, ahora vamosh a [X::]uguetear un poco.

In Madrid maybe, but you wouldn't even notice anything in that sentence in my area, there's no such thing as final [s] to begin with.
Plus [hu.Ge.te.'a] / [hu.'Ga]

[jmcd]

Speaking of Spanish-speaking people speaking English in a different way than others, I had a classmate from Mexico once who I heard pronounce the word 'smoothie' [ˈsmuɾi]. I thought that was pretty interesting.

That's similar to a pronunciation I noticed in a German person in Scotland who said nothing [nʌʔɪn].

[finlay]

I swear I've heard that from native speakers too.

My Japanese students keep saying "closes" for "clothes" – they take /ð/ as /z/ and then apply the rule /z/+s = /zɪz/, or however you want to frame it. It's a bit disconcerting until you get used to it...

I've also had some who I think have started to imitate my non-standard habits like glottal stopping (especially at the end of words) and shortening of words like because, or reduction of "I" to [ə] or [ʌ], which is equally disconcerting because I know I probably shouldn't correct it, but it sounds somehow "wrong" out of their mouths. (this may be in part due to the fact that one of my students pronounces 'cause as [kɔːz], ie not reducing the vowel, whereas if I say it it'd be [kəz])

[Melteor]

Speaking of Spanish-speaking people speaking English in a different way than others, I had a classmate from Mexico once who I heard pronounce the word 'smoothie' [ˈsmuɾi]. I thought that was pretty interesting.

It's likely some extension of t-flapping to *[smuti]...

When I hear Spanish /d/ I don't usually perceive it as similar to my English /ð/ , so maybe it goes in the opposite direction; like they perceive it as similar to /s/ [z] and then allophonyically substitute English /r/... Which supposedly happens to /s/ sometimes.



Something weird:
A) Who is the president of the United States?
*B) Whom is Obama?
'Obama is the president of the United States.

i) Whom is the president of the United States?
ii) Who is Obama?
"The president of the United States is Obama.

I'm pretty sure I've heard A, i, and ii, but B doesn't work. It's kind of surprising given that I know there are 2 readings for the first ' but only 1 for the second ".

[finlay]

Speaking of Spanish-speaking people speaking English in a different way than others, I had a classmate from Mexico once who I heard pronounce the word 'smoothie' [ˈsmuɾi]. I thought that was pretty interesting.

It's likely some extension of t-flapping to *[smuti]...

When I hear Spanish /d/ I don't usually perceive it as similar to my English /ð/ , so maybe it goes in the opposite direction; like they perceive it as similar to /s/ [z] and then allophonyically substitute English /r/... Which supposedly happens to /s/ sometimes.

Too far-fetched, and try not to use your own perceptions to make assumptions! It's really obvious what's going on here, and it's not that! Just remember that in English phonetics [ɾ], annoyingly, tends not to represent a "rhotic" consonant.

Something weird:
A) Who is the president of the United States?
*B) Whom is Obama?
'Obama is the president of the United States.

i) Whom is the president of the United States?
ii) Who is Obama?
"The president of the United States is Obama.

I'm pretty sure I've heard A, i, and ii, but B doesn't work. It's kind of surprising given that I know there are 2 readings for the first ' but only 1 for the second ".

And what the hell are you talking about here? B and i are nonsense talk, ' is the answer to ii and " is the answer to A. This is all backwards. To be fair, personally I could only ever use "whom" after a preposition; when it's fronted like this it sounds ridiculous. But these are questions that frame the named person/object as the subject of the answer sentence (by using "Who is.."). And frankly, in actual speech we'd never repeat the question in the answer anyway...

[Melteor]

Something weird:
A) Who is the president of the United States?
*B) Whom is Obama?
'Obama is the president of the United States.

i) Whom is the president of the United States?
ii) Who is Obama?
"The president of the United States is Obama.

I'm pretty sure I've heard A, i, and ii, but B doesn't work. It's kind of surprising given that I know there are 2 readings for the first ' but only 1 for the second ".

And what the hell are you talking about here? B and i are nonsense talk, ' is the answer to ii and " is the answer to A. This is all backwards. To be fair, personally I could only ever use "whom" after a preposition; when it's fronted like this it sounds ridiculous. But these are questions that frame the named person/object as the subject of the answer sentence (by using "Who is.."). And frankly, in actual speech we'd never repeat the question in the answer anyway...

Actually, I'm trying to model something I'm sure I've heard; when I speak, both A and i can give either ' or ".
Namely, I'm talking about "Whom is the president of the United States," which is most likely someone just trying to be pretentious....because they can't tell the difference between 'who' and 'whom'. Or they're being too clever. :-9

It literally does not matter if the sentence is repeated, you could give a one word answer and the rest would be implied...but that one word could be implied to be subject or object in that sentence, by virtue of the question asked. So any of these you could say either just 'Obama' or 'the president of the united states' and it would be enough.

So, for:
Whom is the president of the United States?
Obama, [is the president of the united states]
Would be what they were fishing for, in theory. But probably rather too far fetched.

[Astraios]

That's similar to a pronunciation I noticed in a German person in Scotland who said nothing [nʌʔɪn].

I do that sometimes.

[ol bofosh]

I heard on the telly "Cazation" from Spanish cazar (to hunt), and a couple of kids with confused faces, "What's cazation?"

[linguoboy]

"Input" as a count-noun in a non-computational context (e.g. "Thank you for your inputs!" [on a topic]). Sounds like a run-of-the-mill L2 error to me, but the speaker claims to be native.

[Shm Jay]

"Input" as a count-noun in a non-computational context (e.g. "Thank you for your inputs!" [on a topic]). Sounds like a run-of-the-mill L2 error to me, but the speaker claims to be native.

Is he an economist? "Inputs" is used in the plural in that field.

[Nortaneous]

Does anyone have "external" as a noun, short for "external hard drive"? I do, and it's stressed on the second syllable, whereas the adjective is stressed on the first: [ˈɛkstɚnəl (h)ɑɹd dɹaɪ̯v] [ɛksˈtɚnəl].

Also, is extensive h-dropping an established thing in any dialect of American English, or is that just me?

[tezcatlip0ca]

Does anyone have "external" as a noun, short for "external hard drive"? I do, and it's stressed on the second syllable, whereas the adjective is stressed on the first: [ˈɛkstɚnəl (h)ɑɹd dɹaɪ̯v] [ɛksˈtɚnəl].

I say "external", but both the noun and the adjective are stressed on the second syllable for me.

[ol bofosh]

Lastly instead of lately. A Spanish calque of ultimamente.

Does anyone have "external" as a noun, short for "external hard drive"? I do, and it's stressed on the second syllable, whereas the adjective is stressed on the first: [ˈɛkstɚnəl (h)ɑɹd dɹaɪ̯v] [ɛksˈtɚnəl].

No, I don't use it as a noun. And as an adjective the emphasis always falls on the second syllable.

Also, is extensive h-dropping an established thing in any dialect of American English, or is that just me?

Never 'eard of it myself.

[Travis B.]

Also, is extensive h-dropping an established thing in any dialect of American English, or is that just me?

My dialect very often has h-dropping for grammar words... but lacks it for other words except maybe occasionally house or home.

[Ser]

A couple days ago, on 4chan.org's /int/ board, there was some discussion going on on hair on women. A couple people, one of them Australian, were saying it were defending it while posting women with hairy armpits, and some other three, one of them Mexican, were mocking them back.

At some point, some Australian anon, besides some more defense of the freedom to be hairy, says "the greatest thing about Asian women is having straight pubes". Mexican anon calls this Australian anon a faggot quoting the argument, while asking "got any pics" as for the comment on straight pubes. Some seconds later, an Australian anon (perhaps the same perhaps not) replies to Mexican anon with a link to the Pits & Pubes Heaven tumblr blog (NSFW).

The Mexican anon, after being welcomed by an array of pictures of muscular young men with hairy armpits, chest and crotch, replied to the Australian anon saying "now you're being gay, not a faggot".

I guess "faggot" is used so often as a general insult to a person on that website that for some people it's even lost its connotations of homosexuality.

Of course, other people also followed the link and ended up calling the Australian anon a faggot anyway, while posting pictures of frogs puking, with comments of deep disgust.