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zompist bboard • View topic - Sound Change Quickie Thread

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:14 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:26 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:46 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:47 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:48 pm 
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And as we are at such things as clusters and changing POAs:

Do you think /c/ > /tk/ makes sense?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:54 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:04 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:11 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:03 pm 
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Not sure about "all environments", but at least in #_V and V_V positions c > kʲ > kt > tk seems possible, like ON mentioned above. Didn't something similar (kj > kt IIRC) happen somewhere in IE?

Another option might be c > tʃ > tx > tk, with the ʃ > x change stolen from Spanish.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:28 pm 
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Greek had pj > pt so kj > kt isn't that far off. Most IE langs had tk > kt so reversing that seems plausible. But the one that goes through tx seems less weird.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:31 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:47 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:32 pm 
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pretty sure pj went to ps in greek?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:51 pm 
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Dammit I went to look up the etymology of a word with pt- but the first one I thought of was 'ptarmigan'.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:43 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:37 pm 
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This is not a question, I'd just like to report a snazzy soundlaw I just found out about: Avestan has rhinoglottophilia.
*h(j) → ŋh / a_a
*hw → ŋʷh / a_a
*h → ŋ / a_ra
Also yes, for some reason this only happens between two /a/'s.

---

Re troflexes: velarization is a very plausible explanation. Consider RUKI, i.e. *s → *ʂ / {r u k i}_. IIRC a change alveolar → retroflex / u_ is also known from various Australian languages.

---

For ie̯ uo̯, some attested options:
1) → iɛ uɔ → ia ua (found in SW Finnish dialects)
2a) → iː.e uː.o (in Livonian)
2b) → je wo (also in Livonian)
3) → ʲeː ʷoː (in Southern Sami, well the 1st anyway)
4) → iɤ uɤ (in Skolt Sami)
5a) → iː uː (in Kildin Sami)
5b) → iː ɨː (in Ter Sami, probably via a Skolt-like intermediate)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:46 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:46 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:23 pm 
Lebom
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Are these possible changes, or well realistic:

iki > yky
uCu > yCy

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:36 pm 
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Yeah, but I wouldn't expect both of them at one time. The first - more likely in a language with two many i's, the second - in one with too many u's.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:12 pm 
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I should specify that the first of the two happens first and that surrounding languages have front rounded vowels.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:57 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:59 pm 
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This was an old attempt to derive something from PIE, and probably not at all in accordance with the laws of sound change, but what do you think about /p t ḱ k kʷ/ > /kʷ ḱ k h~ʔ k/ when next to /h₂/? (or even with the velars fricativized.)

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