Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2

[Pole, the]

*This thread should be read having normal blood pressure blood alcohol content ≥ 0.05%*

ftfy

[Izambri]

*This thread should be read having normal blood pressure blood alcohol content ≥ 0.05%*

ftfy

Not for me, Pole, not for me... XD

[WeepingElf]

Well, the puny facts must not be allowed to get into the way of the Holy Scriptural Truth!

[WeepingElf]

Breaking news from the Substratumlanguages mailing list:

Although I named my own blog and Yahoo group as "Vasco-Caucasian", I now consider the Vasco-Caucasian hypothesis to be *dead*, at least in the "naïve" version popularized by Bengtson. Not only most of his comparisons are worthless, but the few genuine ones are flawed in the sense he hasn't included the "stepping stones". For example, although Basque hartz 'bear' can be remotedly linked to Caucasian *XHVr[tç´]V 'marten; otter', he ignores the former is a loanword from IE *H2rk^t-o- 'bear', most likely Celtic.

[Morrígan]

Breaking news from the Substratumlanguages mailing list:

Although I named my own blog and Yahoo group as "Vasco-Caucasian", I now consider the Vasco-Caucasian hypothesis to be *dead*, at least in the "naïve" version popularized by Bengtson. Not only most of his comparisons are worthless, but the few genuine ones are flawed in the sense he hasn't included the "stepping stones". For example, although Basque hartz 'bear' can be remotedly linked to Caucasian *XHVr[tç´]V 'marten; otter', he ignores the former is a loanword from IE *H2rk^t-o- 'bear', most likely Celtic.

Well, we tried to tell him...

also "*XHVr[tç´]V" is really not a reconstruction in any useful sense, and completely typical of the Starostin version PNC.

[sangi39]

Breaking news from the Substratumlanguages mailing list:

Although I named my own blog and Yahoo group as "Vasco-Caucasian", I now consider the Vasco-Caucasian hypothesis to be *dead*, at least in the "naïve" version popularized by Bengtson. Not only most of his comparisons are worthless, but the few genuine ones are flawed in the sense he hasn't included the "stepping stones". For example, although Basque hartz 'bear' can be remotedly linked to Caucasian *XHVr[tç´]V 'marten; otter', he ignores the former is a loanword from IE *H2rk^t-o- 'bear', most likely Celtic.

Wait... Octaviano's given up?

[WeepingElf]

Breaking news from the Substratumlanguages mailing list:

Although I named my own blog and Yahoo group as "Vasco-Caucasian", I now consider the Vasco-Caucasian hypothesis to be *dead*, at least in the "naïve" version popularized by Bengtson. Not only most of his comparisons are worthless, but the few genuine ones are flawed in the sense he hasn't included the "stepping stones". For example, although Basque hartz 'bear' can be remotedly linked to Caucasian *XHVr[tç´]V 'marten; otter', he ignores the former is a loanword from IE *H2rk^t-o- 'bear', most likely Celtic.

Wait... Octaviano's given up?

I was just as surprised reading this as you are. That he speaks of "the few genuine [among Bengtson's comparisons]" may mean that he is admitting only partial defeat. Only time will tell what will follow.

[Whimemsz]

Well he still accepts it is somehow connected to "Caucasian *XHVr[tç´]V 'marten; otter'" so, it's not like he's totally reformed. I guess it's a step though...

[Drydic]

Breaking news from the Substratumlanguages mailing list:

Although I named my own blog and Yahoo group as "Vasco-Caucasian", I now consider the Vasco-Caucasian hypothesis to be *dead*, at least in the "naïve" version popularized by Bengtson. Not only most of his comparisons are worthless, but the few genuine ones are flawed in the sense he hasn't included the "stepping stones". For example, although Basque hartz 'bear' can be remotedly linked to Caucasian *XHVr[tç´]V 'marten; otter', he ignores the former is a loanword from IE *H2rk^t-o- 'bear', most likely Celtic.

Wait... Octaviano's given up?

You're reading the quote wrong.

[Salmoneus]

Breaking news from the Substratumlanguages mailing list:

Although I named my own blog and Yahoo group as "Vasco-Caucasian", I now consider the Vasco-Caucasian hypothesis to be *dead*, at least in the "naïve" version popularized by Bengtson. Not only most of his comparisons are worthless, but the few genuine ones are flawed in the sense he hasn't included the "stepping stones". For example, although Basque hartz 'bear' can be remotedly linked to Caucasian *XHVr[tç´]V 'marten; otter', he ignores the former is a loanword from IE *H2rk^t-o- 'bear', most likely Celtic.

Well, we tried to tell him...

also "*XHVr[tç´]V" is really not a reconstruction in any useful sense, and completely typical of the Starostin version PNC.

I actually burst out laughing at that 'reconstruction'.

It's basically someone saying "this language here and that language there both have words with an /r/ in them! Or something like an /r/, probably. They don't refer to the same thing, but both things are kind of ferrety, I guess".

[Particles the Greek]

also "*XHVr[tç´]V" is really not a reconstruction in any useful sense, and completely typical of the Starostin version PNC.

I actually burst out laughing at that 'reconstruction'.

It's basically someone saying "this language here and that language there both have words with an /r/ in them! Or something like an /r/, probably. They don't refer to the same thing, but both things are kind of ferrety, I guess".

Plus there's the fact that most of it is in uppercase, which is never a good sign.

[Drydic]

also "*XHVr[tç´]V" is really not a reconstruction in any useful sense, and completely typical of the Starostin version PNC.

I actually burst out laughing at that 'reconstruction'.

It's basically someone saying "this language here and that language there both have words with an /r/ in them! Or something like an /r/, probably. They don't refer to the same thing, but both things are kind of ferrety, I guess".

Plus there's the fact that most of it is in uppercase, which is never a good sign.

...that's just another way of saying what Sal said.

[WeepingElf]

also "*XHVr[tç´]V" is really not a reconstruction in any useful sense, and completely typical of the Starostin version PNC.

I actually burst out laughing at that 'reconstruction'.

It's basically someone saying "this language here and that language there both have words with an /r/ in them! Or something like an /r/, probably. They don't refer to the same thing, but both things are kind of ferrety, I guess".

Plus there's the fact that most of it is in uppercase, which is never a good sign.

Indeed not. The uppercase letters are, in the Russian macro-comparative tradition especially, symbols for segments that cannot be reconstructed in detail. *V is any vowel; *X is any back spirant; *H is any "laryngeal"; you get it. Brackets, likewise, signal uncertainty. Also, it can be observed that Starostin's "reconstructions" are usually about as long as the NWC item and the NEC item combined, if not longer. (Both language families are famed for the brevity of their roots.) If that is the case, a high dose of suspicion is prescribed - you can always construct such "proto-forms" with any pair of languages, by simply intercalating them with each other. A form like "*XHVr[tç´]V" is at most a travesty of a reconstruction. That Octaviano considers this one "genuine" shows that he has not reformed too much.

[WeepingElf]

As all of you probably expected, any hope that Octaviano had reformed have turned out to be premature. Instead, he posted this gem:

In my opinion, SETI is a complete waste of time. The main evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence in our planet lies in our own DNA. I think Homo sapiens is the result of a genetic engineering process by which our creators' DNA was combined with the one of some hominid(s). And probably there weren't just one but several other experiments which lead to the creation of other species such as our Neanderthal cousins. Sorry for the off-topic.

That speaks for itself. No comment necessary, I think.

[Whimemsz]

New theory: Octaviano is really Claude Vorilhon.

[Shm Jay]

That speaks for itself. No comment necessary, I think.

Evidently he got the short end of the chromosome.

[Morrígan]

As all of you probably expected, any hope that Octaviano had reformed have turned out to be premature. Instead, he posted this gem:

In my opinion, SETI is a complete waste of time. The main evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence in our planet lies in our own DNA. I think Homo sapiens is the result of a genetic engineering process by which our creators' DNA was combined with the one of some hominid(s). And probably there weren't just one but several other experiments which lead to the creation of other species such as our Neanderthal cousins. Sorry for the off-topic.

That speaks for itself. No comment necessary, I think.

Genuinely. Speechless.

But this does kind of explain a lot.

[ObsequiousNewt]

"His skull's hollow—he goes on forever—"

[KathTheDragon]

As all of you probably expected, any hope that Octaviano had reformed have turned out to be premature. Instead, he posted this gem:

In my opinion, SETI is a complete waste of time. The main evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence in our planet lies in our own DNA. I think Homo sapiens is the result of a genetic engineering process by which our creators' DNA was combined with the one of some hominid(s). And probably there weren't just one but several other experiments which lead to the creation of other species such as our Neanderthal cousins. Sorry for the off-topic.

That speaks for itself. No comment necessary, I think.

Genuinely. Speechless.

But this does kind of explain a lot.

He watched Prometheus too many times.

[Izambri]

As all of you probably expected, any hope that Octaviano had reformed have turned out to be premature. Instead, he posted this gem:

In my opinion, SETI is a complete waste of time. The main evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence in our planet lies in our own DNA. I think Homo sapiens is the result of a genetic engineering process by which our creators' DNA was combined with the one of some hominid(s). And probably there weren't just one but several other experiments which lead to the creation of other species such as our Neanderthal cousins. Sorry for the off-topic.

That speaks for itself. No comment necessary, I think.

Genuinely. Speechless.

But this does kind of explain a lot.

He watched Prometheus too many times.

Ah, so he has minor brain injuries.

[Legion]

He watched Prometheus too many times.

Prometheus is about aliens using their DNA to kickstart all Earth-life as we know it, rather than just hominids (which is a premise I actually find a lot easier to believe than aliens just splicing their genetics into an existing system to create us specifically); this itself is not an original plot-point but an update of the premise of At The Mountains of Madness (of which Prometheus is basically an unofficial but quite faithful adaptation, and only the last offspring in a long series of varying-in-faithfulness ports of the story which include Alien vs Predator, The Thing (all versions), and of course, the original Alien, which was however quite more subtle about that than any of the other mentioned products here), where aliens are revealed to have created the first aerobic eukaryotes from scratch and introduced them to Earth mostly out of boredom, if I remember correctly (details may substantially vary, I haven't read this story in years).

[Particles the Greek]

Is it just possible that our friend Octavianus might actually be a very clever troll? It's hard to be that wacky and not be doing it on purpose.

[----]

Hard, but not impossible.

[Drydic]

You haven't read much of the conspiracy theory community, have you? This is pretty par for the course (if loony.)

[Salmoneus]

He watched Prometheus too many times.

Prometheus is about aliens using their DNA to kickstart all Earth-life as we know it, rather than just hominids (which is a premise I actually find a lot easier to believe than aliens just splicing their genetics into an existing system to create us specifically); this itself is not an original plot-point but an update of the premise of At The Mountains of Madness (of which Prometheus is basically an unofficial but quite faithful adaptation, and only the last offspring in a long series of varying-in-faithfulness ports of the story which include Alien vs Predator, The Thing (all versions), and of course, the original Alien, which was however quite more subtle about that than any of the other mentioned products here), where aliens are revealed to have created the first aerobic eukaryotes from scratch and introduced them to Earth mostly out of boredom, if I remember correctly (details may substantially vary, I haven't read this story in years).

The Thing isn't a 'port' of the story, it's just inspired by it - "(a) frozen alien(s) is/are discovered in Antarctica". The Thing itself may have been inspired by the idea of the shoggoth, but isn't just a shoggoth - while the shoggoth can extrude limbs and such, there's no suggestion it can perfectly mimic other lifeforms (including behaviour), or that it can divide into pieces, or (iirc) that it's telepathic. The novella suggests a vaguely shoggothy appearance, but the films don't.
I really don't see what At the Mountains of Madness has in common with Alien, other than that both involve aliens. And even Alien vs Predator just as "alien thing found in antarctica". I wouldn't even say Prometheus was a 'faithful adaptation' - it clearly shares plot points with it, yes, but the relation is further than, say, between Pocahontas and Avatar, and the latter is not considered an adaptation of the former.

What are the key points a thing has to have to be considered an adaptation or 'port' of At the Mountains of Madness, exactly?

[It's been a while since I read it too, but I don't remember 'aliens created earth life' as being the premise of the story, just as a possibility mentioned in passing]