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zompist bboard • View topic - Pasic- NP: Morphology Redux

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:04 pm 
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Last edited by communistplot on Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:18 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:11 am 
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huh, I'm surprised prenasalized stops don't > nasals *before* nasal vowels, like in all those South American languages

ɥ in a phonology that small seems weird but maybe it came from a pharyngeal approximant?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:25 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:06 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:48 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:44 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:53 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:20 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:36 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:11 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Chipasic- NP: Syntax
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:47 pm 
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what is sort of happening here is, you are listing Things and how the language marks them without saying what those Things are

What exactly are 'definite' and 'indefinite'? What is 'topic' (this is briefly but not very interestingly or descriptively discussed, give us some more details!) What do the cases do? What does the paucal do? and so on. The names are suggestive but it would be a lot more interesting if instead of just presenting a list of morphemes you gave us some of the meat of the language.

That said I appreciate that it is a discussion of nominal morphology - at the same time, if you're not going to present e.g. allomorphy then something would be nice!

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 Post subject: Re: Chipasic- NP: Syntax
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:07 pm 
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Well firstly I'd like to apologise for my absence, I've been battling a terrible sickness this past week.

And secondly @Vardelm, thanks for all that. Your second option is more what I was trying to go for and the book will be a great read. :D

@Yng I dunno, description is probably one of my biggest weaknesses when it comes to this (which is probably terrible given that I'm in university for linguistics) I'll definitely go over my posts, and my notes and see where I can expand things.

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 Post subject: Re: Chipasic- NP: Syntax
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:27 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Chipasic- NP: Syntax
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:47 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Chipasic- NP: Syntax
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:02 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Chipasic- NP: Syntax
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:18 pm 
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Well, it's not really 'direct' to not explain something. Directness and conciseness are good, of course, but saying 'my language has a genitive' and assuming that is anything other than a vaguely suggestive category label, on the other hand, is not. These things can be tricky to write and talk about in detail, but that's because they're what distinguish an interesting, well-thought out conlang from another tedious sketch cobbled together from half-read Wikipedia articles. Ultimately, of course, it's up to you how you want to develop your conlang - but I personally am very interested in these sorts of details, especially in syntax (which is an underdescribed feature of languages on this board, probably because the people who write interesting things about it rarely share their work).

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:56 pm 
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Today I'll be reintroducing the Noun in Pasic as I've been busy making changes to the language as a whole and expanding my skills of description. This will be part one of three, focusing on describing Pasic nouns as well as introducing number. Anywho, without further ado here goes nothing.

Pasic itself is a highly agglutinative language mostly using suffixes to derive meaning but also with a few prefixes as well. Derivation is mostly done through compounding though derivational suffixes exist as well as other methods (such as reduplication to create collective nouns).

Its alignment is Ergative-Absolutive with a combined morphological and syntactic (more on this one later) Ergativity.

Now that that's out of the way let's get on to Nominal Morphology.

Number
Pasic marks four different numbers; Singular, Dual, Plural & Collective as prefixes going ahead of the noun. The differences between each will be illustrated (not actually, I don't have any pencils) below:

The Singular is the unmarked number it marks a single (one) of an object with a null-morpheme:

Ø-

for example "one dog" would be <kwų>.
The singular also acts as a Singulative for Collective nouns for example <surā> for a blade of grass.
And that concludes the Singular.

Now if you want to mark more than one of a thing we have two more prefixes to talk about.
First up is the dual:

bī-

which is used when talking about two things. To use our previous example "two dogs" would be <bīkwų>. The dual is often seen as an archaism amongst some speakers and is rapidly being lost amongst those trendy hipsters in favour of a periphrastic construction, but more on that eventually.

Finally for denoting multiples we have the far more widely used Plural:

hu-

The plural is used for denoting anything with more than two, so for a whole "army of dogs" one would use <hukwų>. Now that's a whole lotta dogs, eh?

Now that I've outlined the basic numbers we'll get to a special category of mass, or collective, nouns for which their existence is pluralised and indistinguishable. We saw one earlier in the form of <surā> or "grass" which despite being in singulative (remember the singular also acts as a singulative) is a collective noun.

When you want to express these nouns in their natural state however you must append the following:

tya-

that will mark your collectives, though most folks nowadays don't mark their collective instead using a periphrastic construction to denote a singulative.

And that's all for parte uno. Next time I have some drive I'll discuss topic marking, again!

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