Substantial postings about constructed languages and constructed worlds in general. Good place to mention your own or evaluate someone else's. Put quick questions in C&C Quickies instead.
I've been refreshing and not getting anything really interesting (though Gleb did give me a language with no labials besides /f/) but it did give me this hilariously redundant rule:
Nasals [m n ɲ ...] persistently become nasals and assimilate in place of articulation to a following obstruent or nasal.
Seed is 1638962514, the language isn't very interesting otherwise.
EDIT: Well, this is odd....:
Bilabial Labiodental Laminal
alveolar Laminal
alveolar
sibilant Velar Uvular Glottal
Nasal m̥ m n̻̥ n̻ ŋ̥ ŋ ɴ̥
Stop b b͡v tʰ̻ t̻ d̻ d͡z̻ kʰ k g qʰ q
Fricative s̻ x χ h
Approximant l̻ ɰ
Vowels Front Back
High i ɯ u
Mid-high e ɤ o
Low ɑ ɒ
Syllable structure
(C)V
C: a consonant
V: a vowel
Allophony
Labial stops or nasals [m̥ m b b͡v] assimilate in dorsality and uvularity and palatalisation and whether palatal or palatalised velar to a following obstruent or nasal. Before a velar or uvular consonant other than [ɰ], [b͡v] become non-affricate and assimilate in uvularity.
[tʰ̻ kʰ k qʰ q b͡v] become fricatives between a vowel or semivowel and a vowel or semivowel. Non-velar or uvular stops become stops; aspirated stops become unaspirated.
Nasals [ŋ͡m̥ ɴ͡m n̻ ...] become nasals and assimilate in place of articulation to the previous phone between an obstruent or nasal and an obstruent or nasal.
Nasals [ŋ͡m̥ ɴ͡ɱ̥ n̻̥ ...] persistently become nasals and assimilate in place of articulation to the previous phone between an obstruent or nasal and an obstruent or nasal.
Consonants [ŋ͡m̥ n̻ d̻ ...] become rounded [ŋ͡mʷ̥ nʷ̻ dʷ̻ ...] word-finally.
High vowels and semivowels [ɰ w ɯ ...] persistently become non-high [ɤ̯ o̯ ɤ ...] after a non-near-high vowel or an uvular consonant except for a vowel or semivowel.
Tense semivowels [ɰ w ɤ̯ o̯] assimilate in uvularity to a preceding vowel or semivowel.
[ɤ̯] persistently become [ɘ̯] before a non-low front vowel.
Non-front vowels and velar or uvular semivowels other than [w o̯], i.e. [ɰ ɯ o ...], assimilate in backness or velarisation to a following semivowel. Before [ɘ̯], rounded vowels become unrounded.
Unaspirated obstruents [g͡b b̪ qʷ ...] assimilate in voice to a following consonant other than approximant and become voiceless word-finally. Before a voiced stop or nasal, obstruents other than stops become stops.
Stops [k͡p p kʰʷ ...] persistently assimilate in aspiration to a following consonant other than approximant and become unaspirated word-finally. Before an aspirated consonant, voiced stops become voiceless.
Non-sibilant coronal alveolar nasals [n̻̥ n̻ nʷ̻̥ nʷ̻] become nasals and assimilate in place of articulation to a following obstruent.
Non-sibilant coronal alveolar stops [tʰ̻ d̻ tʷ̻ ...] become sibilants [t͡sʰ̻ d͡z̻ t͡sʷ̻ ...] before a non-nasal alveolar fricative.
Velar or uvular obstruents or nasals [ŋ͡m̥ ɴ q͡pʰ̪ ...] persistently assimilate in uvularity to a following back obstruent or nasal.
Labial stops or nasals [ŋ͡m̥ ɱʷ̥ ɢ͡b̪ ...] persistently assimilate in labiodentality to a following labial stop or nasal.
Here's the phonemic inventory we were given with seed #1813866917:
Consonants:
m n̻
p ɓ t̻ ɗ̻ k g
s̻ h
l̻ w
Vowels:
i iː u uː
e eː o oː
æ æː
The syllable structure:
(C1)V(C2)(C3)(C4)
C1: a consonant
V: a vowel
C2: a voiced consonant other than an implosive; i.e. one of /m n̻ g l̻ w/
C3: one of /m n̻ g ɓ ɗ̻ h/
C4: one of /m n̻ g ɓ ɗ̻ s̻ h l̻ w/
We're going to play with the allophony some more and see how we can make these words more fun.
1829488856: /m ɱ n ŋ t k s x h ɾ j w/ /i u ɑ/ 15 phonemes, phonemic /ɱ/, more fricatives than stops, more sonorants than obstruents
1861398429: /u o ɔ a/ i.e. no front vowels (though there is /j/), also /w/-/wː/ distinction
1760892469: /u ʊ o ɔ a/ i.e. no front vowels, this time no palatal or palatalised consonants at all
1760630679: /m n p t k s ɾ l/ /i u e o ɛ ɔ a/ 15 phonemes, (C)V, 5 allophony rules of which only one is non-redundant: "[e o ɛ ɔ] become [i u ɪ ʊ] before a nasal"
1759807651: /ɨ˞ ɜ˞ a˞/ i.e. three phonemic rhotacised vowels
1757874866: /r ɾ ɽ ɹ ɻ/ i.e. five phonemic rhotic consonants
1746800278: /n tʰ t kʰ k kʷ s ɾ/ 8 consonants but 32 vowels (/i u e o ɑ/ with contrast in length/creakiness in all of them, and nasality in /e o ɑ/), (C)(C)V(C)(C)
1746599950: /i e a/ i.e. no back vowels, one of the words generated is /ʈ͡ʂʰ̻ehhhah/ (post-allophony), note /hhh/
1745814316: no nasals, 16 phonemes, /hh-/ and /-sss-/ in the generated words (post-allophony)
1744962101: more affricates than "pure" stops
1753186851: /i ĩ ɛ ɛ̃ a ã/ i.e., no back vowels
1752565005: /i u ɛˤ a/
1752270005: /m n̻ k͡p p t̻ k ʔ s̻ l̻/ /i ɯ u e ɤ o ʌ/ 16 phonemes, /ʌ/ as the only low or mid-low vowel
1748400547: /i y ɨ u e ẽ/ i.e. only high and mid-high vowels (even post-allophony)
1748990159: phonemic /ʎ̃/
Seed 1774581927. a and A contrast. Arabic's stops except dZ and ? and prenasalized voiced stops.
Seed 1774876974. both unrounded and rounded high central vowel, always rhotacized, rhotacized /a/, Pharyngealized velars and pharyngeal voiced fricative as only fricative.
Bilabial Laminal
alveolar Velar Pharyng.
velar Pharyngeal
Nasal m n̻ ŋ
Stop p b t̻ d̻ k g kˤ gˤ
Fricative s̻ ʕ
Approximant l̻ ʟ
Front Central Back
High i y ɨ˞ ʉ˞ u
Mid-low ɛ œ ɔ
Low a a˞
Consonants
Bilabial-velar Bilabial-uvular Bilabial Alveolar Velar Uvular
Nasal ŋ͡m̥ ŋ͡m ɴ͡m̥ ɴ͡m m̥ m n̥ n ŋ̥ ŋ ɴ̥ ɴ
Prenasalised stop ŋ͡mk͡pʰ ŋ͡mg͡b ɴ͡mq͡pʰ ɴ͡mɢ͡b mpʰ mb ntʰ nd ŋkʰ ŋg ɴqʰ ɴɢ
Stop k͡pʰ k͡p g͡b q͡pʰ q͡p ɢ͡b pʰ p b tʰ t d kʰ k g qʰ q ɢ
Prenasalised fricative nz ŋɣ ɴʁ
Fricative s z x ɣ χ ʁ
Trill r ʀ
Resonant l ʀ̆
Vowels
Front Central Back
High i u
Mid-high e o
Low a 58 consonants and 5 vowels
I got this lovely vowel inventory earlier today: i i: u u: e e: o o: ɔˤɔːˤ a aː aˤ aːˤ ɑ ɑː ɑˤ ɑːˤ ɒ ɒː ɒˤ ɒːˤ
It also had some lovely allophony rules such as "Nasals [m n] persistently become nasals and assimilate in place of articulation to a following non-front obstruent or nasal." (really, the nasals become nasal before nasals) and "Non-glottal stop non-glottal fricative obstruents [p b̪ k ...] assimilate in voice to a preceding obstruent." which I'm still trying to parse.
I generally forget to say, so if it's relevant and I don't mention it--I'm from Southern Michigan and speak Inland North American English. Yes, I have the Northern Cities Vowel Shift; no, I don't have the cot-caught merger; and it is called pop.
alynnidalar wrote:"Non-glottal stop non-glottal fricative obstruents [p b̪ k ...] assimilate in voice to a preceding obstruent." which I'm still trying to parse.
Obstruents other than /ʔ h ɦ/ assimilate in voice to a preceding obstruent.
I have a bunch of gleb phonologies that I saved to my computer four years ago or so after I had been introduced to it. Let's see if any of them have any interesting qualities.
Seed 1222666009: A vowel inventory of /u ɯ ɞ̃ ʌ ʌ̃ ɔ ɔ̃ a ã ɛ ɛ̃ i/. While /ɞ̃/ may be somewhat plausible (it reminds me of how, say, Kanien'kéha has /ə̃ ũ/ even though it doesn't have those as oral vowels), the overall inventory seems strange.
Seed 1230595389: Voicing distinctions in /ʃ ʒ/ and /h ɦ/, but no other fricatives (including /s/).
Seed 1298459509: The only voiceless-ejective distinction in the language is /q qʼ/. No other plosive has anything but a voiceless phoneme.
Seed 1318185237: Not exactly remarkable overall, but I feel it deserves a mention because the vowels are /u ũ ʊ ʊ̃ o õ ɔ ɔ̃ a ã ɛ ɛ̃ e ẽ ɪ ɪ̃ i ĩ/. That's right—for once, gleb actually made a vowel inventory where no vowel height was missing a nasality distinction.
Seed 1335421245: A vowel inventory of /u ɔ a ɛ/.
Seed 1644333973: A phonemic labiodental nasal (/ɱ/).
Seed 1718109736: Consonant inventory includes phonemic creaky voice that looks like the phonemes drew straws to see which would have a creaky variant. Creaky-voiced phonemes are /m̰ ɓ̰ w̰ g̰/; /n/ has no creaky-voiced counterpart, and no other plain stops except /g̰/ are creaky-voiced—there is no /ɠ̰/, or even any /ɠ/. Vowels are /u a y i/, for what it's worth.
Seed 1750602705: A vowel inventory of /a ã æ æ̃ ẽ i/.
Seed 1806636111: /tˡ/ and /ʔʷ/, the only obstruents to make these distinctions. The consonant set doesn't even have a /w/.
Seed 1823791893: One would expect there to be /t tʰ/ in this phonology, but there's only /t/. There's both /tˡ tˡʰ/, though.
Seed 1914312427: How do you even pronounce /hˤ/?
Seed 1992857462: A vowel inventory of /a e i/. Not exactly unprecedented but I wanted to mention it anyway.
Seed 2021411572: A vowel inventory of /u ɯ a i/.
Seed 2028358447: Generally has voiceless-ejective-voiced distinctions in the stops except for the palatals, whose only stop is /ɟ/; the only voiced fricatives are /ɣ/, which has a counterpart /x/, and some flavor of /ɮ̰̠/, a creaky-voiced retracted alveolar lateral fricative, with no voiceless counterpart (all other fricatives are voiceless).
Seed 2034092232: /gʷ/ but no /kʷ/, and the only voiced fricative out of seven is /ɦ/. Vowels are /u ɔ ʌ ɛ i/.
Seed 2048838795: A vowel inventory of /ʉ o a i/.
Seed 2067615658: This has to be seen to be believed (also I was looking at these on my phone and Dropbox cuts the document off on the side). It's crazy. The filename I saved it under is "Sandbox 54 [EPIC PHONOLOGY].docx" for a reason. Nort, if you use this phonology let me know how you romanize it.
Seed 2092938721: The only affricates are voiced (/dʒ dɮ̠/).
Seed 2132229244: A vowel inventory of /u a ɛ œ i/.
Last edited by Pogostick Man on Wed May 06, 2015 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
alynnidalar wrote:"Non-glottal stop non-glottal fricative obstruents [p b̪ k ...] assimilate in voice to a preceding obstruent." which I'm still trying to parse.
Obstruents other than /ʔ h ɦ/ assimilate in voice to a preceding obstruent.
It doesn't say non-glottal stop and non-glottal fricative obstruents, though, which seems to imply it's saying non-glottal stop fricatives.
I generally forget to say, so if it's relevant and I don't mention it--I'm from Southern Michigan and speak Inland North American English. Yes, I have the Northern Cities Vowel Shift; no, I don't have the cot-caught merger; and it is called pop.
alynnidalar wrote:"Non-glottal stop non-glottal fricative obstruents [p b̪ k ...] assimilate in voice to a preceding obstruent." which I'm still trying to parse.
Obstruents other than /ʔ h ɦ/ assimilate in voice to a preceding obstruent.
It doesn't say non-glottal stop and non-glottal fricative obstruents, though, which seems to imply it's saying non-glottal stop fricatives.
Another way of writing it would be "non-glottal stop, non-glottal fricative obstruents". It's a typical gleb redundancy.
Consonants
Bilabial Laminal
alveolar Alveolar Palatoalv.
sibilant Postalv. /
palatal Velar
Nasal m n̻ n ɲ ŋ m ň n ņ ñ
Prenasalised stop mb nd̻ nd nd͡ʒ ŋg mb nŗ nd nž
Stop p b t̻ d̻ t d t͡ʃ d͡ʒ k g p b ļ ŗ t d š ž k g
Tap ɾ ɽ r ģ
Approximant β̞ ɹ̻ ɹ ʟ v z s ł
No fricatives, but affricates, and apical laminal distinction. Generated by Gleb version 0.3.1a seed 1468595599.
C1: a consonant
V: a vowel
C2: a consonant other than /d̻ d g d͡ʒ/
Consonants
Bilabial Alveolar Alveolar
sibilant Velar Glottal
Nasal m n m n
Stop p t t͡s k ʔ p t z k j pronunciation based off Italian but j comes from the fact that many South American Indian languages use j for /h/.
Fricative s h
Resonant ɾ̥ ɾ w̥ w r l y w
Vowels
Front Central Back
High i ɨ u i î/â (same rule as Romanian) u
Mid-low ɛ ɜ ɔ e ê/û (ê at beginning of words, û at middle and end of words) o
Low a ɑ ɒ a æ å
Phonemic inventory
Consonants
Labial Palatalised
labial Alveolar Palatalised
alveolar Apical
palatalised
alveopal. /
palatal Velar
Nasal m mʲ n nʲ ɲ ŋ m ň n ņ ñ g
Stop p b pʲ bʲ t d tʲ dʲ ṯ̺ʲ ḏ̺ʲ k p b ľ lj t d ķ ģ ť ď k
Fricative f v fʲ vʲ s z sʲ zʲ ɕ̺ ʑ̺ ɣ f v ż ç s z š ž ś ź w
Approximant l lʲ j l ĺ j
What are apical palatized alveolo-palatals.
Vowels
Front Central Back
High i ĩ u ũ i ï u ü
Mid-low ɛ ɛ̃ ɔ ɔ̃ e ë o ö
Low a ã a ä
Syllable structure
Nasalization symbol based off the old spelling for Guarani's nasal vowels.
(C1)V(R)(C2)
C1: a consonant
V: a vowel
R: a sonorant; i.e. one of /m mʲ n nʲ ɲ ŋ l lʲ j/
C2: one of /m mʲ n nʲ ɲ ŋ p pʲ t tʲ ṯ̺ʲ k f fʲ s sʲ ɕ̺ l lʲ j/
Allophony
Nasals [m n ɲ ...] become nasals and assimilate in place of articulation to a following obstruent or nasal.
Palatal or velar consonants other than [j], i.e. [ɲ ŋ k ɣ], become rounded [ɲʷ ŋʷ kʷ ɣʷ] after a high rounded vowel.
Unrounded consonants other than [j], i.e. [m pʲ fʲ ...], become rounded [mʷ pʲʷ fʲʷ ...] after a rounded obstruent or nasal.
Unrounded consonants other than [j], i.e. [m pʲ fʲ ...], become rounded [mʷ pʲʷ fʲʷ ...] before a rounded consonant.
Short voiced stops [b bʲʷ dʲ ...] become fricatives [β βʲʷ lʲ ...] between a vowel or semivowel and a vowel or an approximant. Alveolar stops become approximant laterals; alveopalatal stops become non-coronal semivowels; [ḏ̺ʲʷ] become [j].
Non-pharyngeal non-front consonants [m pʷ v ...] persistently become front [mʲ pʲʷ vʲ ...] before a front high vowel or a high palatal semivowel.
Non-nasal vowels and semivowels [j u ɔ ...] persistently become nasal [ɲ ũ ɔ̃ ...] before a nasal vowel. [j] become [ɲ].
Central vowels [a ã] become front [ɛ ɛ̃] before a front consonant.
Coronal consonants [n dʲ sʲ ...] persistently assimilate in anteriority and retroflexion to a following fricative sibilant. Before an alveopalatal fricative, approximant laterals become non-lateral non-coronal palatal or velar; [lʷ lʲʷ] become [j j]; [l] become [j].
Coronal consonants [n tʲʷ zʲ ...] persistently assimilate in anteriority and retroflexion to a following fricative sibilant. Before a palatoalveolar fricative sibilant, approximant laterals become non-lateral non-coronal palatal or velar; [lʷ lʲʷ] become [j j]; [l] become [j].
Central vowels [a ã] become front [ɛ ɛ̃] after a front consonant.
Short non-glottal fricative voiceless stops [p tʷ ṯ̺ʲ ...] become voiced [b dʷ ḏ̺ʲ ...] between a voiced phone and a voiced phone.
Palatal obstruents or nasals [ɲ c ɟʷ ...] become alveopalatal [ṉ̺ʲ ṯ̺ʲ ḏ̺ʲʷ ...] before a palatoalveolar obstruent or nasal.
Non-pharyngeal consonants other than palatal consonants [m t vʷ ...] persistently assimilate in palatalisation to a following consonant.
Coronal stops [t dʲ ṯ̺ʷ ...] become sibilants [t͡s d͡zʲ t͡ʃ̺ʷ ...] before a non-nasal coronal fricative.
Obstruents [p cʷ v ...] persistently assimilate in voice to a following obstruent or nasal.
Alveopalatal stops or nasals [ṉ̺ʲ ḏ̺ʲ t͡ɕ̺ ...] become non-affricate non-coronal palatal [ɲ ɟ c ...] before a palatal obstruent or nasal.
Some words
/sũ/ [sũ]
/ãmʲsʲ/ [ɛ̃nʲsʲ]
/un/ [un]
/sɛ̃lʲɛ/ [sɛ̃lʲɛ]
/tɔj/ [tɔj]
/pãlʲ/ [pɛ̃lʲ]
/ṯ̺ʲulʲ/ [ṯ̺ʲulʲ]
/bɔ̃/ [bɔ̃]
/sʲɔɕ̺/ [sʲɔɕ̺]
/zuɲ/ [zuɲʷ]
/din/ [dʲin]
/us/ [us]
/nʲazʲãsʲ/ [nʲɛzʲɛ̃sʲ]
/lʲiŋ/ [lʲiŋ]
/inʲ/ [inʲ]
/jausʲ/ [jɛusʲ]
/lun/ [lun]
/tʲaṯ̺ʲ/ [tʲɛṯ̺ʲ]
/ṯ̺ʲãmtujɕ̺/ [ṯ̺ʲɛ̃ndujɕ̺]
/fapu/ [fabu]
/pãmbʲuj/ [pɛ̃mʲbʲuj]
/ɣamfint/ [ɣaɱʲfʲint]
/tulpʲ/ [tulʲpʲ]
/pʲamfɛ̃/ [pʲɛɱfɛ̃]
/zɔĩɲ/ [zɔ̃ĩɲ]
/tɛjɲɔ̃/ [tɛjɲɔ̃]
/ŋu/ [ŋu]
/ɔnʲ/ [ɔnʲ]
/kulʲ/ [kulʲ]
/pʲɔm/ [pʲɔm]
Generated by Gleb version 0.3.1a / 5.0a with seed 1469479923.
I Made weird spellings because I am using an IPad keyboard.
Last edited by Birdlang on Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I know we all want to parrot dank memes like "DAE english" and act like a language spoken by five 280 people in the middle of bumfuck nowhere is totally equivalent to the lingua franca of the world, but these things called "statistics" exist and cross-linguistically /wC jC/ clusters are rare, and admitting that fact isn't some mortal sin.
Nūdhrēmnāva naraśva, dṛk śraṣrāsit nūdhrēmanīṣṣ iźdatīyyīm woḥīm madhēyyaṣṣi. satisfaction-DEF.SG-LOC live.PERFECTIVE-1P.INCL but work-DEF.SG-PRIV satisfaction-DEF.PL.NOM weakeness-DEF.PL-DAT only lead-FUT-3P
"Rare cross-linguistically" does not mean "non-existent". I'm certain that if you took every known language in the world, the ones which allow initial /wC jC/ clusters will constitute a smaller amount than the ones which don't.
Much like how the fact that English is the third most spoken language in the world does not change the fact that non-silibant dental fricatives are uncommon cross-linguistically.
Nūdhrēmnāva naraśva, dṛk śraṣrāsit nūdhrēmanīṣṣ iźdatīyyīm woḥīm madhēyyaṣṣi. satisfaction-DEF.SG-LOC live.PERFECTIVE-1P.INCL but work-DEF.SG-PRIV satisfaction-DEF.PL.NOM weakeness-DEF.PL-DAT only lead-FUT-3P