Help your fluency in a nifty way

[sirdanilot]

And yes it probably makes me sound hypocritical that I just corrected a whole bunch out of that text, but it sounded more 'off' to me than the previous text, also because he chose some relatively complicated constructions and these are much harder to get right than what he used in the previous text.

[Qwynegold]

問題は、何が「全く違い」か？完全に主観的なことだね？
Mondai wa, nani ga "mattaku chigai" ka? Kanzen ni shukantekina koto da ne?
Problem is, what is "absolutely off"? It's a completely subjective thing, isn't it?

[sirdanilot]

Of course it's subjective, and also subject to dialect variation. I think JAL is more from the Brabant area and I am more from the Zeeland area which may already cause some influence even when both speaking Standard Dutch, as dialect influence always seeps in. Still I think Viktor's first text was better than his second text, because he used less complicated constructions, and the more complicated constructions you use the higher the odds that you will make a mistake somewhere.

In viktors second text, some of the sentences were hardly intelligible to me, and this was absolutely not the case in his first text. But of course it's all okay we are here to learn, a lot of the portuguese I posted in this thread is probably quite awful too. I am a true 'semispeaker' of Portuguese, sadly, in that I can use it to communicate but I have severe gaps in lexical items and my grammar is way off and my syntax is often copy-pasted from Dutch or English influence.

[Qwynegold]

だから、私は人々のフィンランド語を直すと「直しすぎる？」と考える。あの大丈夫と過剰の境界はずいぶん不明瞭だ。
Dakara, watashi wa hitobito no Finrando-go wo naosu to "naoshi-sugiru?" to kangaeru. Ano daijoubu to kajou no kyoukai wa zuibun fumeiyou da.
It's just that when I'm correcting other people's Finnish, I'm always thinking "am I over-correcting?" The limit between okay and over-corrected is very unclear.

ところで、だれかキーボードで手伝える？たとえば」のキーを見つけないんだ。ウィキピーディアでえを見るがどっちがこのレイアウットか分からない。小さいかたかなもどう書くか分からない。
Tokoro de, dare ka kiiboodo de tetsudaeru? Tatoeba 」 no kii wo mitsukenain da. Wikipiidia de e wo miru ga dotchi ga kono reiautto ka wakaranai. Chiisai katakana mo dou kaku ka wakaranai.
Btw, can anyone help me with my keyboard? I can't for example find the 」 key. I've been looking at pictures on Wikipedia, but can't figure out what corresponds to this layout. I also don't know how to type small katakana.

[hwhatting]

Pardon, dass ich so schrecklich Deutsch schreiben.

I think hwhatting missed that one.

Yep.

EDIT: Entschuldigung, dass ich nicht in einer Fremdsprache geschrieben hab. Nächtes Mahl versuche ich, wieder etwas Längeres zu schreiben.
Appologies for not writing in a foreign language. Next ime I'll try to write something longer.

Ja także czasami nie wiem, co pisać.
I also sometimes don't know, what to write.

[finlay]

だから、私は人々のフィンランド語を直すと「直しすぎる？」と考える。あの大丈夫と過剰の境界はずいぶん不明瞭だ。
Dakara, watashi wa hitobito no Finrando-go wo naosu to "naoshi-sugiru?" to kangaeru. Ano daijoubu to kajou no kyoukai wa zuibun fumeiyou da.
It's just that when I'm correcting other people's Finnish, I'm always thinking "am I over-correcting?" The limit between okay and over-corrected is very unclear.

ところで、だれかキーボードで手伝える？たとえば」のキーを見つけないんだ。ウィキピーディアでえを見るがどっちがこのレイアウットか分からない。小さいかたかなもどう書くか分からない。
Tokoro de, dare ka kiiboodo de tetsudaeru? Tatoeba 」 no kii wo mitsukenain da. Wikipiidia de e wo miru ga dotchi ga kono reiautto ka wakaranai. Chiisai katakana mo dou kaku ka wakaranai.
Btw, can anyone help me with my keyboard? I can't for example find the 」 key. I've been looking at pictures on Wikipedia, but can't figure out what corresponds to this layout. I also don't know how to type small katakana.

普通には、「」は[]のキーで書いて、小さい片仮名はｘ＋あとかで書くよ。ほとんどは、Lでもちっちゃい文字が書けるんだ。
Usually, 「」are written with the [] keys, and the small katakana with X + the letter. Most layouts also let you do this with L+the letter (on the mac this is described as "windows style" and it lets you choose whether to have it or not).

たとえば、「ちっちゃぁぁい」っては「ti-xtu-ti-xya-xa-xa-i]で書ける。
For example, "chitchaaai" can be written [tixtutixyaxaxai] (or you can do [chicchaxaxai] or [tittyalalai] or whatever - it's quite flexible).

Some other ones: holding shift will either force katakana (on the mac) or romaji (on windows). Mac and mobile layouts also will replace words with emoji. I don't think the default windows one does this. Oh yeah, and common katakana small letter combinations like ファ or ティ can be written "fa" and "thi" (you could use fuxa and texi but that's inconvenient - but in my limited experience Japanese people tend to favour those because of the way they presumably visualize the characters).

[jal]

Ik ben gelukkig dat iemand mijn Nederlands corrigeren willen zou, zo het me niets schelen kan als iemand me heel veel correcties of minder correcties aangeven. Zoals Duits, mijn Nederlands is nog zeer "Englishy." Natuurlijke syntax is moeilijk te leren, maar nog leer ik graag Nederlands, zo ik er niets me over zorgen maak.

sirdanilot caught most of it (@sirdanilot: please use strike-tags to edit out wrong words, like everyone does here, it's much clearer), so I'll make some general observations:
1) Both Dutch and German, as V2 languages, have different word order in subclauses. In the above, this means "dus kan het me niets schelen" (though "dus het kan me niets schelen" can also be correct), "Net (zo)als mijn Duits is mijn Nederlands" (alhtough I'd opt for "Mijn Nederlands is, net (zo)als mijn Duits, ..."), "maar ik leer nog graag", "dus maak ik me er geen zorgen over".
2) English "so" is "dus" in Dutch ("dus het kan me niets schelen", "dus maak ik me geen zorgen").
3) Verbs in -en are plural, so since "iemand" is singular, it should be "aangeeft". In contradiction with what sirdanilot seems to have corrected, you can't "correcties aangeven", except when "correcties" would be stuff to pass through customs. I'd say "correcties maken".

@sirdanilot: I'm not from Brabant. I've lived in the center of the Netherlands for all my life, and have no discernable accent and/or special quirks in my Dutch.

Ich finde es ganz tapfer dass du Deutsch sowie Niederländisch lernst. Es sind beide nicht so einfache Sprachen, und ganz schwierig wenn du nur English sprecht.
I think it's quite brave that your studying both German and Dutch. They're both languages that aren't very easy, and quite difficult to learn when you're only speaking English.


JAL

[vampireshark]

Je trouve que beaucoup de mes collègues me posent des questions sur la grammaire de l'anglais écrit (et aussi sur les impôts américains). Je n'ai aucune idée pourquoi c'est le cas, mais, ben, je fais ce que je peux.
Seems like a lot of my colleagues have been asking me questions about written English (and about U.S. taxes). Don't know why that's the case, but, hey, I'll do what I can.

[hwhatting]

Ich finde es ganz mutig*1), dass du Deutsch und*2) Niederländisch lernst. Sie sind beide*3) nicht so einfache Sprachen, und ganz schwierig, wenn du nur English sprecht.
I think it's quite brave that your studying both German and Dutch. They're both languages that aren't very easy, and quite difficult to learn when you're only speaking English.

*1) I can't really say why, but tapfer doesn't sound right here.
*2) sowie is very formal and on top of that doesn't really render "both". If you want to have something stronger than und, better say "dass du D und dazu N. lernst" or "dass du D und N. gleichzeitig lernst"
*3) Or, IMD, Es sind beides

Dwa języka za cenę jednego.
Two languages for the price of one.

[Qwynegold]

だから、私は人々のフィンランド語を直すと「直しすぎる？」と考える。あの大丈夫と過剰の境界はずいぶん不明瞭だ。
Dakara, watashi wa hitobito no Finrando-go wo naosu to "naoshi-sugiru?" to kangaeru. Ano daijoubu to kajou no kyoukai wa zuibun fumeiyou da.
It's just that when I'm correcting other people's Finnish, I'm always thinking "am I over-correcting?" The limit between okay and over-corrected is very unclear.

ところで、だれかキーボードで手伝える？たとえば」のキーを見つけないんだ。ウィキピーディアでえを見るがどっちがこのレイアウットか分からない。小さいかたかなもどう書くか分からない。
Tokoro de, dare ka kiiboodo de tetsudaeru? Tatoeba 」 no kii wo mitsukenain da. Wikipiidia de e wo miru ga dotchi ga kono reiautto ka wakaranai. Chiisai katakana mo dou kaku ka wakaranai.
Btw, can anyone help me with my keyboard? I can't for example find the 」 key. I've been looking at pictures on Wikipedia, but can't figure out what corresponds to this layout. I also don't know how to type small katakana.

普通には、「」は[]のキーで書いて、小さい片仮名はｘ＋あとかで書くよ。ほとんどは、Lでもちっちゃい文字が書けるんだ。
Usually, 「」are written with the [] keys, and the small katakana with X + the letter. Most layouts also let you do this with L+the letter (on the mac this is described as "windows style" and it lets you choose whether to have it or not).

たとえば、「ちっちゃぁぁい」っては「ti-xtu-ti-xya-xa-xa-i]で書ける。
For example, "chitchaaai" can be written [tixtutixyaxaxai] (or you can do [chicchaxaxai] or [tittyalalai] or whatever - it's quite flexible).

Some other ones: holding shift will either force katakana (on the mac) or romaji (on windows). Mac and mobile layouts also will replace words with emoji. I don't think the default windows one does this. Oh yeah, and common katakana small letter combinations like ファ or ティ can be written "fa" and "thi" (you could use fuxa and texi but that's inconvenient - but in my limited experience Japanese people tend to favour those because of the way they presumably visualize the characters).

このレイオウットではＡｌｔＧｒを使えない。(と)は＊と「を作る。シフトはローマ字をする。テストするんだ:ぁぃぅぇぉっァィゥェォッヶ」。あら、今小さいかなを書ける。それに」は¨のキーで書く。ありがとう！
Kono reioutto de wa AltGr wo tsukaenai. ( to ) wa ＊ to 「 wo tsukuru. Shifuto wa roomaji wo suru. Tesuto surun da: aiueotsuaiueotsuke」. Ara, ima chiisai kana wo kakeru. Sore ni 」 wa ¨ no kii de kaku. Arigatou!
You can't use AltGr with this layout. ( and ) make ＊ and 「. Shift makes Latin letters. Testing: aiueotsuaiueotsuke」. Ah! Now I can write small kana. And 」 is typed with the ¨ key. Thanks!

[finlay]

なーにゆってんだ？なんでAltGrを話している？このキーの用途は全然知らないよさ。
who said anything about altgr? I don't even know what that key is for anyway.

それで、この点々のキーは何だろう？スウェーデンのキーボードを使うんだね。だからこの話はめっちゃまごまごしてるんだね。
And what on earth is that key? Is this gonna be forever confused by the fact that you're using a swedish keyboard?

Edit:
じゃー、話を続ける前に、君のキーボードは本物に比べなきゃさ。
you'd better compare your keyboard to a real one before we continue this conversation...

[Imralu]

じゃー、話を続ける前に、君のキーボードは本物に比べなきゃさ。
you'd better compare your keyboard to a real one before we continue this conversation...

Aber ... aber ein echtes Keyboard sieht so aus!
But ... but a real keyboard looks like this.

[jal]

But ... but a real keyboard looks like this.

Ha ha, genau!
Hehe, exactly!


JAL

[Pogostick Man]

Je trouve que beaucoup de mes collègues me posent des questions sur la grammaire de l'anglais écrit (et aussi sur les impôts américains). Je n'ai aucune idée pourquoi c'est le cas, mais, ben, je fais ce que je peux.
Seems like a lot of my colleagues have been asking me questions about written English (and about U.S. taxes). Don't know why that's the case, but, hey, I'll do what I can.

Sayo·té· kʌ?
Are you working? (via the Oneida app for iPhone, which is pretty cool)

[Viktor77]

Ich finde es ganz mutig*1), dass du Deutsch und*2) Niederländisch lernst. Sie sind beide*3) nicht so einfache Sprachen, und ganz schwierig, wenn du nur English sprecht.
I think it's quite brave that your studying both German and Dutch. They're both languages that aren't very easy, and quite difficult to learn when you're only speaking English.

Dank je. Ik vind het welgevallig naar leren twee Germaanse talen. En ik ben niet zeker dat deze grammaticale constructie hier correct is.

Danke. Mir gefällt es, zu lernen zwei Germanischen Sprachen. Und ich bin nicht sicher, dass diese grammatische Konstruktion hier korrekt ist.

Thank you. I find it pleasing to learn two Germanic languages. And I'm not sure that this grammatical construction here is correct.

[jal]

Dank je. Ik vind het welgevallig naar leren twee Germaanse talen. En ik ben niet zeker dat deze grammaticale constructie hier correct is.
Thank you. I find it pleasing to learn two Germanic languages. And I'm not sure that this grammatical construction here is correct.

1) "welgevallig" is correct Dutch, but so ancient you should never feel the need to use it :). In this case, colloquially, use "leuk vinden".
2) Though "zu" can be translated "naar" when talking about a direction, in this case (resultatives) it should be "(om) te". Also keep in mind the altered word order in subclauses (in both Dutch and German), so that the verb comes last.
3) "to (not) be sure" is "er (niet) zeker van zijn" in Dutch, one of those constructions needing that pesky "er". Alternatively, you can use "niet zeker weten".
4) Though perhaps sir d. or another Dutchman may disagree, I'd use "bedankt" instead of "dank je". I think "dank je" is used more for an act, instead of a compliment. Very shady area of pragmatics though...

So all in all, it should be something like this:

"Ik vind het leuk om twee Germaanse talen te leren. Ik ben er niet zeker van (...)" or "Ik weet niet zeker of (...)"

Ich habe kein Zeit dazu, viel zu schreiben. Muss wieder an die Arbeit!
I don't have time to write much. Must start working again!


JAL

[sirdanilot]

Dank je or 'dank je wel' is fine.

[Viktor77]

Ich habe kein Zeit dazu, viel zu schreiben. Muss wieder an die Arbeit!
I don't have time to write much. Must start working again!


JAL

Ik moet niet de woorden op de Internet zoeken! Ik heb mijn enkel woordenboek verloren, maar ik ben er zeker dat dit boek in een doos in het huis van mijn vader is.

Ich muss nicht die Wörter im Internet suchen! Ich habe mein einziges Wörterbuch verloren, aber ich bin sicher, dass dieses Buch in einem Kasten beim Hause meines Vaters ist.

Aš nereikiu žodžių ieškoti internete! Pamečiau savo vienintelį žodyną, bet tikrai knyga dėžėje pas savo tėvo namą.

I must not look up words on Google! I have lost my only dictionary, but I'm sure that this book is in a box at my father’s house.

[sirdanilot]

Ik moet niet de geen woorden op de Internet zoeken! Ik heb ben mijn enkel enige woordenboek verloren, maar ik ben er zeker van dat dit boek in een doos in het huis van mijn vader ligt is.

op internet: as 'op internet' is used so much in Dutch, an article is no longer needed. But it's 'het internet' not de if you do want to use the article. You could say 'op het internet' but nowadays 'op internet' is more common.
ben verloren: you are the undergoer of the action 'to lose', so we use a form of 'zijn' (to be) and not hebben (have)
enkel: is single. only is 'enige'
zeker: the expression is i'k ben er zeker van dat...'

is: In Dutch, we do not use 'is' in this way. You usually/always have to specify the position in which something is. A book is a horizontal object so it 'lies' in a box (not stand or sit which could be possible for other things).

Very good, in any case !

[Viktor77]

Ik moet niet de geen woorden op de Internet zoeken! Ik heb ben mijn enkel enige woordenboek verloren, maar ik ben er zeker van dat dit boek in een doos in het huis van mijn vader ligt is.

op internet: as 'op internet' is used so much in Dutch, an article is no longer needed. But it's 'het internet' not de if you do want to use the article. You could say 'op het internet' but nowadays 'op internet' is more common.
ben verloren: you are the undergoer of the action 'to lose', so we use a form of 'zijn' (to be) and not hebben (have)
enkel: is single. only is 'enige'
zeker: the expression is i'k ben er zeker van dat...'

is: In Dutch, we do not use 'is' in this way. You usually/always have to specify the position in which something is. A book is a horizontal object so it 'lies' in a box (not stand or sit which could be possible for other things).

Very good, in any case !

I know a lot of those things...or at least I did know them...And of course now the German is messed up for the same reasons. D'oh! *Smacks self*

[SeptimusFabrius]

salve! mortuaene linguae permittae sunt? Latinam disceo.
Hello! Are dead languages allowed? I'm learning Latin.

[jal]

ben verloren: you are the undergoer of the action 'to lose', so we use a form of 'zijn' (to be) and not hebben (have)

Though this may be right for your dialect, that's not generaly correct in Dutch at large. See here. (Note to Vic: the Taaladviesdienst of Het Genootschap Onze Taal is considered by many to be the authorative guide on anything Dutch.)

EDIT: Verrückt! Wieder Mal vergessen etwas auf Deutsch zu schreiben!
Damn! Forgot again to write something in German!


JAL

[finlay]

salvete! mortuaene linguae permittae permissae sunt? Linguam Latinam disceo disco.
Hello! Are dead languages allowed? I'm learning Latin.

「permissus」って、たぶんだいたい「捨ててた」という意味があるそうだから、もっと適当な言葉もあるかもしれないです。。
Permissus seems to usually mean "thrown away", so I'm wondering if there isn't a better word.

そしてもちろんよ〜
And like yeah of course

[SeptimusFabrius]

Peut-être écrire en français serait meilleur pour ma dignité... Il semble que je ne peux pas rappeler beaucoup de la langue latine. C'est possible que je pensais de la français quand j'écrivais ça poste. Cela expliquerait pourquoi j'ai oublié quand il faut utiliser les suffixes des conjugaisons différentes... Et pourquoi je ne pourrai pas rappeler la conjugaison à qui « disco » appartenit.

L'avis de mon dictionnaire est que « permittere » est correct (bien que, quand il est utilisé comme ça, il prenne le datif), mais il dit aussi « sinere ». Cependant, qu'il est correct ou non, j'ai utilisé une forme incorrecte - vous étiez correct, finlay, il faut utiliser « permissus » au lieu de « permittus ». (Alors - comment fait-on une citation sur ces forums?)

Perhaps writing in French would be better for my dignity... It seems that I can't remember very much Latin. It's possible that I was thinking of French when I was writing that post. That would explain why I forgot when to use the suffixes of different conjugations... And why I couldn't remember the conjugation to which "disco" belongs.

My dictionary's opinion is that "permittere" (although, when it's used in that way, it takes the dative) is correct, although it also says "sincere". However, whether or not it's correct, I used an incorrect form - you were right, finlay, "permissus" should be used instead of "permittus". (Incidentally - how do you create a quote on these forums?)

[Viktor77]

Peut-être écrire en français serait meilleur pour ma dignité... Il semble que je ne peux pas me rappeler beaucoup de la langue latine. C'est possible que je pensais au français quand j'écrivais ça ce poste. Cela expliquerait pourquoi j'ai oublié quand il faut utiliser les suffixes des conjugaisons différentes... Et pourquoi je ne pourrais pas me rappeler la conjugaison à qui laquelle « disco » appartenitient.

Le avis point de vue de mon dictionnaire est que « permittere » est correct (bien que, quand il est utilisé comme ça, il prenne le datif), mais il dit aussi « sinere ». Cependant, qu'il est correct ou non, j'ai utilisé une forme incorrecte - tu étais juste vous étiez correct, finlay, il faut utiliser « permissus » au lieu de « permittus ». (Alors - comment fait-on une citation sur ces forums?)

I am not a native speaker, but there are some things I saw quickly. I prefer 'point de vue' over 'avis' here though that's just a personal choice. Don't use 'vous' on a forum, that's too formal. Also, it's better to you a phrase like 'avoir raison' or 'juste', than the English equivalent 'correct.'