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zompist bboard • View topic - Venting thread that still excludes eddy (2)

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 7:59 pm 
Sumerul
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I was actually just speaking in the future really with the term 'spouse.' When we apply for a visa, or when I apply, or however we work this out, he will be my spouse. Right now he's my fiance. We are indeed getting married, at a courthouse in Minnesota because our home state of Michigan does not legally recognize gay marriage, and even if the Supreme Court overturns their ban, it'll be too late to apply for the visa married. Illinois has a bizarre law on the books that two out-of-state people can't get married there if their home state doesn't recognize the marriage, which was designed for other things, but ends up affecting us. Neither of us are big fans of Indiana or Wisconsin, Iowa is just not exciting, everywhere else is too far away. Minnesota is a state I love because LGBT support is high there. They passed marriage through the legislature, not the courts. The state is competent, and I have always enjoyed the Twin Cities, especially the quieter St. Paul which has a gorgeous Art Deco courthouse.

But now things are just depressing because people I thought cared about us are flocking left and right. I invited 15 people, and neither my grandparents nor my partner's parents say they'll come. They say it's the travel, but I honestly find that ridiculous to say that traveling to basically another Midwest state, especially when you can fly, or when we offered to arrange rides, is an excuse to miss the first marriage of a grandchild, or your child's marriage. They accept our relationship, but honestly I wonder if it's the fact we're gay, or the fact we don't want to spend a fortune on a wedding and would rather have a simple non-traditional courthouse wedding that is focused on love and not how big of a party can we throw. I'm sorry we can't afford an actual wedding and have parents who can't afford an actual wedding and don't desire an actual wedding. I'm just sorely disappointed. At least my father and brother and best friend are confirmed, but my partner has no one so far. His best friends might be flocking too....

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 12:18 am 
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 12:27 am 
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 12:57 am 
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 2:05 am 
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Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:49 am 
Smeric
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Is it not terribly reactionary and all family traditional values muh jesus asdaogag to go "marriage is not good because divorce" ? I mean, it amounts to saying marriages that last 12 years and then end are like failures, and that No True Marriage unless Forever and all of that shit that made perfect sense when we had no medicine or condoms but is total bs now.

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:44 am 
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Besides, the "half of all marriages end in divorce" statistic isn't accurate. The divorce rate is actually primarily going down, in the US. (not for every group, of course, but on average) According to , the divorce rate peaked at around 41% (average for all people who had ever been married) in the 1970s and has been going down since then. (there's other, newer articles on the subject, that's just the first one I came across that actually had a statistic for the peak in the 70s)

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 10:42 am 
Lebom
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It seems to me that the 'marriage lasts until death do us part' idea worked a lot better back in the day when mortality was higher and it was pretty plausible that you might be a widow/er in 5 or 10 years. If your marriage is on the rocks, you can hope that hubby or wifey gets a cut from a rusty nail and gets infected and dies from lack of good medical care, or whatever.

There's a guy at work who decided to try to convert me to Christianity, and who wasn't using very good arguments (e.g. citing his out of body experience without explaining why I should consider it as more than just a hallucination (assuming there is such an argument; if there is one, he didn't attempt to provide it), misunderstanding how the theory of relativity works even at the pop level understanding a nonscientist like I have, and making false claims about Roman Catholic teachings on the resurrection of Jesus (I mean come on, of course the Catholics believe he was resurrected. Do you think I'm an idiot, coworker?) Now yesterday, we were talking, and someone made a remark about Barack Obama (I didn't catch what it was, just that it was about Obama) and this religious guy did that thing where you say you aren't prejudiced, but then proceed to utter a bunch of racist stuff, in this case about how Obama's a secret Muslim and how this is a Christian country and how we shouldn't let Arabs and Muzzies come over here. I was inclined to engage with him before, in hopes of at least getting him to provide better arguments for his religious claims, but now I'm unsure that it's worth my time, since it would probably be too much work.


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:17 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:25 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 10:31 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 10:34 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 11:10 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 11:31 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 11:46 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 10:47 am 
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When you check out a cute guy's profile page on Facebook and you don't know enough about him to guess whether the bald eagle and American flag cover photo is ironic (à la Colbert) or sincere.



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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 2:05 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 7:38 pm 
Smeric
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My friend is having some problems with life, but he gets really mad every time I give him advice. He says he doesn't want me to tell him what to do. I'm really bothered because he's refusing to acknowledge these problems but it doesn't seem like there's anything I can do about it. It's also totally throwing me for a loop because he says 'everyone hates the way I give advice' but I have never heard anyone say they distinctly did not like my advice other than this particular person. So I'm wondering if I really am bad at helping people or this guy is just a special case. So confusing :?


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 8:43 pm 
Avisaru
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I think it's best not to give him advice unless he asks for it.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 9:38 am 
Smeric
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re advice:

Theta, I'm not sure what your friend's going through, but just to give a bit of an insight into how illogical my mind can be when things are not going well ...

I have some really unhelpful quirk of my personality that means I can't deal with advice from people a lot of the time. I overthink everything to begin with. If something sucks and I tell someone and they tell me what to do, 99% of the time, their advice is nothing new. For example, at the moment, I'm pretty sure I have depression. Everyone around me is telling me to get a job. I already know I need to get a job. I want to get a job. I know it would help me, take off the stress of looming financial ruin, give me a reason to get out of the house and be active and make me feel like I can function in the world again. This is good advice, but it's not new to me. It's hardly an obscure idea. Hearing it from others just makes me feel more pressure and makes the whole thing seem harder and I end up completely freezing up and feeling like I can't do anything. I can't even bear the thought of even looking at my CV right at the moment, let alone tinker around with it, translate it into German, and then the next time I see these friends and they ask how the job hunt's going and there is no rational thing that I can say to explain why I have done nothing. I know it's only coming from a place of concern and genuine willingness to be a good friend, but I just can't deal with it, so I avoid the topic, avoid the friends, or I pretend that everything's OK around them from then on. All I want is to feel close to people without any judgement and I know that, in time, I'll find the strength to do what I need to do. I just need space.

On the occasions where the advice is something I hadn't thought of, something really helpful that I'm grateful for, it's still easy to feel external pressure. I know it shouldn't matter, but I really feel choked by it. I need to let the idea sit in my head for a while till it connects with the part of me that really wants to do it. Years ago, when I was younger, deeply depressed and still living with my family (which was not good for me), some friends of mine asked me to move in with them. All I felt was "I can't. I can't. I can't." They knew me well. They let it drop. I had to get the "I can't" out of my system. A few weeks later, I suddenly felt like I could do it and I called them and asked if it would still be OK if I moved in with them. It was. It was their idea and they had planted it, but I needed time and space to even consider it as a real possibility.

I know this is not logical. It's not rational. People can do anything they put their minds to and all that blah blah blah motivational posters on walls and you can do it. *high five* The logical part of me that knows this is still in there, shaking his head at the rest of me, but the emotional part of me has a switch that can completely shut me down and make it hard to leave the house or face other human beings. I know I need to eat and sometimes just feeding myself seems like too much of a responsibility. I know that when I get like this, it means I'm sick, but all I really need from people is to just be there, laugh with me about stupid things, listen to me if I need it, be nice to me and not focus on the fact that I really suck at life at the moment. I know that and I don't need it pointed out. I feel like that's all really demanding and needy of me, but actually - it's not.

I obviously don't know the situation with your friend. I know it's really hard to watch a friend going through a tough time, especially when the answer is right there in front of them and you don't understand why they're not fixing their situation. It can be frustrating. The natural urge is to help them - point out the things they should be doing, follow up with them to see if they're doing it and ask why they're not if they're not, but it might not be helping. If someone wants advice, they can ask for it. (Even better if you make that clear, that you're there and they can ask for it if they want but don't have to.) Saying that "everyone hates the way you give advice" is a bit harsh, and I'm sorry you heard that. It must hurt to hear that when all you're trying to do is help, but I have a feeling your friend is just trying to push the advice away - not because it's bad or because he doesn't appreciate your willingness to help but because he just can't handle hearing any advice.

Potentially, I'm projecting and none of this fits your friend at all, but it's a possibility so I thought I'd share.

EDIT: Removed "people" from "how illogical people my mind can be" ...

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Last edited by Imralu on Mon May 18, 2015 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 5:14 am 
Sumerul
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Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 12:48 pm 
Sanno
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So, in the parlance of British politeness, exactly how damning is, "Really not a good idea"?


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 2:55 pm 
Sanno
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 3:03 pm 
Sanno
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"I suggest you avoid that course of action, you utter plonker, because pursuing it may result in your limbs being bitten off by crocodiles."

To me, if someone says they think that something is really not a good idea, this strongly implies to me that they think that... well... that it would really not be a good idea. As in, no ifs or buts.

It doesn't have to mean that, of course, like everything you can exaggerate. I think I'd find it milder if someone said it about themselves - that is, if someone's telling a story and says "turns out that's really not a good idea!", the outcome is probably less serious that it would be if someone warned you in all seriousness "That's really not a good idea."

But yeah, to me this calls up exchanges like:
"I know I'm wasted but I think I'll drive home. It's just a quick nip down the motorway..." - "Really not a good idea"
"Sod it, I'm just going to tell him I slept with his sister... what's the worst he can do?" - "Really not a good idea"
etc

But, *shrug*, everything depends on context.

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 5:33 pm 
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