Sound Change Term Question

Discussion of natural languages, or language in general.
Post Reply
User avatar
2+3 clusivity
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 454
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:34 pm

Sound Change Term Question

Post by 2+3 clusivity »

Is there a term for a sound change of the following pattern --

/-VASV-/ --> /-VASAV-/; and some nonse examples, /alga, dijda, albəm/ -> /algla, dijdja, albləm/

A = approximant; S = Stop; V = Vowel
linguoboy wrote:So that's what it looks like when the master satirist is moistened by his own moutarde.

User avatar
mèþru
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1984
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:44 am
Location: suburbs of Mrin
Contact:

Re: Sound Change Term Question

Post by mèþru »

Inserting a sound is called epenthesis.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
kårroť

Vijay
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2244
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:25 pm
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Re: Sound Change Term Question

Post by Vijay »

I don't get the pattern, though. :P I don't see what the (phonetic) motivation is for epenthesizing either [l] or [j], and anyway, "approximant" is a pretty vague term since it can mean stuff like lateral approximants or just glides like [j].

User avatar
Chengjiang
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 437
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:41 am
Location: Davis, CA

Re: Sound Change Term Question

Post by Chengjiang »

Vijay wrote:I don't get the pattern, though. :P I don't see what the (phonetic) motivation is for epenthesizing either [l] or [j], and anyway, "approximant" is a pretty vague term since it can mean stuff like lateral approximants or just glides like [j].
Were it just VASV > VSAV it'd be metathesis, which is a fairly common change, but as it stands I can neither think of an appropriate name for it nor think of a natural example of it. It's very distinctive, at any rate.

I don't have any real problem with the approximant category in this case. If the sound change applies to all approximants, whether glide or liquid, then this is an appropriate way to describe it.
[ʈʂʰɤŋtɕjɑŋ], or whatever you can comfortably pronounce that's close to that

Formerly known as Primordial Soup

Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.

Vijay
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2244
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:25 pm
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Re: Sound Change Term Question

Post by Vijay »

Chengjiang wrote:Were it just VASV > VSAV it'd be metathesis, which is a fairly common change
It's common but AFAIK usually not a regular sound change that applies across the board.

Ohh, wait a minute. So you repeat the approximant. OK. That's what I didn't realize until just now. I feel like there must be a better way of expressing this with this notation, like αA or something (so something like /-VASV-/ -> /-VASαAV-/?).

User avatar
Pole, the
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1606
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:50 am

Re: Sound Change Term Question

Post by Pole, the »

Vijay wrote:I don't get the pattern, though. :P I don't see what the (phonetic) motivation is for epenthesizing either [l] or [j], and anyway, "approximant" is a pretty vague term since it can mean stuff like lateral approximants or just glides like [j].
The point is the sequence C₁C₂ turns into C₁C₂C₁ intervocalically.

I don't know, I would either call it a specific type of an epenthesis (where a consonant cluster gets separated from a vowel by introducing one more consonant), or—if I were to invent a new term—I would call it something like “perithesis” (Greek for “putting sth around sth”).
The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.

If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.

User avatar
2+3 clusivity
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 454
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:34 pm

Re: Sound Change Term Question

Post by 2+3 clusivity »

Pole, the wrote:The point is the sequence C₁C₂ turns into C₁C₂C₁ intervocalically.
Yeah, sorry, my notation is not great. Pole and Vijay hit on the pattern. An approximant -- here, /j, w, l, etc./ is repeated following a stop.

Epenthesis seemed awkward to me given that it usually breaks CC or VV cluster.

"Perithesis" ... ha! That's good. Thanks folks.
linguoboy wrote:So that's what it looks like when the master satirist is moistened by his own moutarde.

User avatar
Chengjiang
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 437
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:41 am
Location: Davis, CA

Re: Sound Change Term Question

Post by Chengjiang »

Vijay wrote:
Chengjiang wrote:Were it just VASV > VSAV it'd be metathesis, which is a fairly common change
It's common but AFAIK usually not a regular sound change that applies across the board.
It is a very common sporadic sound change, but there are some cases of it being systematic. For example, Common Slavic had systematic metathesis of coda liquid consonants with the preceding vowel.
[ʈʂʰɤŋtɕjɑŋ], or whatever you can comfortably pronounce that's close to that

Formerly known as Primordial Soup

Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.

Vijay
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2244
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:25 pm
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Re: Sound Change Term Question

Post by Vijay »

Chengjiang wrote:
Vijay wrote:
Chengjiang wrote:Were it just VASV > VSAV it'd be metathesis, which is a fairly common change
It's common but AFAIK usually not a regular sound change that applies across the board.
It is a very common sporadic sound change, but there are some cases of it being systematic. For example, Common Slavic had systematic metathesis of coda liquid consonants with the preceding vowel.
It's supposed to have happened systematically in Romani as well, but I'm skeptical in that particular case at least.

User avatar
Tropylium
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 512
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:13 pm
Location: Halfway to Hyperborea

Re: Sound Change Term Question

Post by Tropylium »

Avestan has regressive "perithesis" of /j/, but this probably works thru palatalization: Cj > Cʲj > jCj. The same mechanism might be difficult to extend to liquids.
[ˌʔaɪsəˈpʰɻ̊ʷoʊpɪɫ ˈʔæɫkəɦɔɫ]

Post Reply