Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlearn
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
[Splitting this to prevent the evergreen Funny Placename Challenge from overwhelming the original topic.]
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
For some reason, within my immediate family, we pronounced taut identical to taunt. I don't think I was ever taunted for saying it this way, but I decided to change it before I was.
French words were a particular trial for me since I studiously avoided contact with the language during my adolescence. I naturally thought coup would be pronounced as coop and corps like corpse. Then I learned coup de grace with the common American hypercorrection (i.e. /ˌkudəʹɡrɑː/) and had to unlearn that.
French words were a particular trial for me since I studiously avoided contact with the language during my adolescence. I naturally thought coup would be pronounced as coop and corps like corpse. Then I learned coup de grace with the common American hypercorrection (i.e. /ˌkudəʹɡrɑː/) and had to unlearn that.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
I'm sure there are so many incorrect pronunciations I've had to unlearn that it may not even be worth the trouble to try listing them out. Not just in English, either.
I think that's close enough if not spot on.Zaarin wrote:To this day I've never figured out the proper general populace pronunciation of "New Orleans," so as far as I'm concerned it's [ˈnu ˈoʊ̯ɹ̱ˁln̩z].
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Yeah, I was wondering if it might be more worthwhile to take a stab at sorting them into categories. As a first approximation, you could split mine into:Vijay wrote:I'm sure there are so many incorrect pronunciations I've had to unlearn that it may not even be worth the trouble to try listing them out. Not just in English, either.
- Spelling pronunciations due to being a precocious reader from a young age (e.g. hyperbole)
- Widespread barbarisms in American English (e.g. bruschetta and maraschino with /ʃ/)
- Regional pronunciations that I rejected as being too marked (e.g. initial stress on hotel, umbrella; intrusive /r/ in water)
In foreign languages, you could divide most of my errors into (a) overgeneralisations/hypercorrections and (b) interference from English. For instance, I used to mispronounce German Englisch as if spelled Ingglisch under influence from /ˈɪŋɡlɪʃ/. And I've had an issue with overgeneralising ü quite apart from the fronting influence of American English /uw/.
One particular case of overgeneralisation: I used to pronounce German articles with /ə/ even when stressed. (In fact, I wouldn't be surprised that I used to pronounce dem with [ɪ] due to my native pen-pin merged speech. The only reason I can make the distinction in English is because I learned it while studying German.)
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
I actually have an inverse pin-pen merger where a lot (but not all) of my lax vowels become [ɛ] in single-syllable words: milk [mɛlk], and/end [ɛnd], since/sense [sɛn(t)s]...Though actually I still have [ɪ] in pin.
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
hyper bowl : )
Im interested. Are UK'ers better at getting all those delicious Italian foods right? Wiktionary seems to say that the UK and US are more or less equivalent with respect to how to pronounce "sch" and differ only on the vowels. Also, that reminds me:linguoboy wrote:Yeah, I was wondering if it might be more worthwhile to take a stab at sorting them into categories. As a first approximation, you could split mine into:Vijay wrote:I'm sure there are so many incorrect pronunciations I've had to unlearn that it may not even be worth the trouble to try listing them out. Not just in English, either.
- Spelling pronunciations due to being a precocious reader from a young age (e.g. hyperbole)
- Widespread barbarisms in American English (e.g. bruschetta and maraschino with /ʃ/)
....... schizophrenia
I'm really curious about this. We pronounce the {sch} part perfectly correctly, but corrupt the {z} into a German-like /ts/. Is this a relic of the period when psychology was dominated by Germans?
And yes, i did the "hyperbowl" thing, when I saw it in a Calvin & Hobbes strip one day. I didnt really get the meaning at all, and somehow thought it was related to the Super Bowl despite the obvious spelling difference.
And now Sunàqʷa the Sea Lamprey with our weather report:
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Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Thought of another one I was guilty of: pronouncing <olive> to rhyme with <alive>. My family teased me about that one.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
My entire family has an intrusive <n> in mozzarella /mantsərɛlə/, and if I heard correctly my mom's sister does as well. I don't know if that's a widespread thing or a quirk of our family.
Velar nasal, instead of alveolar/palatal, in <onion>. People never seem to notice anyways. It seems to be a widespread but uncommon thing.
For the longest time I pronounced <authentic> as if it were <aufentic>. I think it's just that I'd always heard *or* seen the word, never the two at the same time, so it took a long time to click that it wasn't an /f/ people were pronouncing. Again, though, it's so close most people probably wouldn't even notice.
A bunch of linguistics terms more than likely, but especially <velar> /veɪ.lr/, and I maintain that the correct pronunciation of <syncope> just sounds stupid.
<pronunciation> often I say and misspell as <pronounciation>, reversing trisyllabic laxing.
Velar nasal, instead of alveolar/palatal, in <onion>. People never seem to notice anyways. It seems to be a widespread but uncommon thing.
For the longest time I pronounced <authentic> as if it were <aufentic>. I think it's just that I'd always heard *or* seen the word, never the two at the same time, so it took a long time to click that it wasn't an /f/ people were pronouncing. Again, though, it's so close most people probably wouldn't even notice.
A bunch of linguistics terms more than likely, but especially <velar> /veɪ.lr/, and I maintain that the correct pronunciation of <syncope> just sounds stupid.
<pronunciation> often I say and misspell as <pronounciation>, reversing trisyllabic laxing.
I must have had exceptional teachers then, cuz I was taught /or.gɨn/ and /'hɛ.lɨ.nə/.Viktor77 wrote:Oregon. No one from the Midwest or East Coast knows how to pronounce it correctly which is apparently a large source of humor for Oregonians. We are taught /'O`.rI.gan/ but it's actually /'O`.rI.gIn/ or even /'O`.gIn/ in informal speech. So I had to relearn that one.
I had to correct my pronunciation of the Montana city Helena. I always said /h@.'leI.n@/ but it's actually /'hE5.lI.n@/.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
My family does too, though I've fought it as an adult. I also used to have an intrusive [n] in magnet [mægnn̩t].vokzhen wrote:My entire family has an intrusive <n> in mozzarella /mantsərɛlə/, and if I heard correctly my mom's sister does as well. I don't know if that's a widespread thing or a quirk of our family.
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
I used to have an Indian accent and mispronounced English (in English) as something like [ˈiːŋgɭɪʃ]. I was also very, very slow to realize that [θ] and [ð] really did exist in English, even though I had no trouble believing that they did in Castillian Spanish. I used to say [t̪] and [d̪] (respectively) instead and thought my brother was making things up when he told me how they were really pronounced in English because no one else ever told me my pronunciation of those particular sounds was weird, or perhaps they never picked up on it because I otherwise had developed an American accent by then.linguoboy wrote:For instance, I used to mispronounce German Englisch as if spelled Ingglisch under influence from /ˈɪŋɡlɪʃ/.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
To be fair, many of us North Americans, in colloquial/lax speech, will pronounce [θ] and [ð] as /t/ and /d/ - even going so far as to realise a final /θ/ as [ʔ].Vijay wrote:I was also very, very slow to realize that [θ] and [ð] really did exist in English, even though I had no trouble believing that they did in Castillian Spanish. I used to say [t̪] and [d̪] (respectively) instead and thought my brother was making things up when he told me how they were really pronounced in English because no one else ever told me my pronunciation of those particular sounds was weird, or perhaps they never picked up on it because I otherwise had developed an American accent by then.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
But the thing is, I had a dental vs. alveolar stop contrast, so I had /t/ vs. /d/ and /t̪/ vs. /d̪/. All four of those stops exist in Malayalam, but the alveolar stops aren't phonemic (whereas, of course, all four of these were in my idiolect of English).Matrix wrote:To be fair, many of us North Americans, in colloquial/lax speech, will pronounce [θ] and [ð] as /t/ and /d/ - even going so far as to realise a final /θ/ as [ʔ].
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
You think a monolingual English speaker with no linguistic training/interest is gonna be able to distinguish between alveolar and dental stops?
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
I don't know. Maybe they couldn't distinguish between (my) dental stops and (their) dental/interdental/whatever fricatives, either. If they heard me using /t/ or /d/ when pronouncing words that are supposed to have /θ/ or /ð/ in them, they certainly never pointed it out (with the exception of my brother, of course). So either they didn't notice this oddity in my pronunciation (since otherwise I had a pretty...like, normal American accent anyway, plus I suppose context clues helped in ambiguous cases), or they just never bothered telling me.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Wait, what? What part of North America is this? Because this sure isn't something that happens where I'm from. Like you say, "My least favourite subject is ma'." ??Matrix wrote:To be fair, many of us North Americans, in colloquial/lax speech, will pronounce [θ] and [ð] as /t/ and /d/ - even going so far as to realise a final /θ/ as [ʔ].
Also, I tend to leave my /θ/ alone, though /ð/ gets turned to /d̪/ or some weaker approximant type thing.
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Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Yes, many monolingual English speakers are able to understand monolingual English speakers from Ireland without any difficulty!Matrix wrote:You think a monolingual English speaker with no linguistic training/interest is gonna be able to distinguish between alveolar and dental stops?
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Oh right, I'd forgotten all about Hiberno-English!
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Thinking about this, what I said there was really stupid. Like, what the hell was I even thinking? I think I was thinking about the word "that", where I usually realize the "th" as [d], and for some reason, I thought the final /t/ was actually a /θ/?? One of the weirdest brain farts I've ever had, I think.clawgrip wrote:Wait, what? What part of North America is this? Because this sure isn't something that happens where I'm from. Like you say, "My least favourite subject is ma'." ??Matrix wrote:To be fair, many of us North Americans, in colloquial/lax speech, will pronounce [θ] and [ð] as /t/ and /d/ - even going so far as to realise a final /θ/ as [ʔ].
Also, I tend to leave my /θ/ alone, though /ð/ gets turned to /d̪/ or some weaker approximant type thing.
Sure, I can understand Irish people, but to my ears, they have merged the dental fricatives into the alveolar stops.Salmoneus wrote:Yes, many monolingual English speakers are able to understand monolingual English speakers from Ireland without any difficulty!
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Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Monolingual AmE speakers with no linguistic training/interest can probably distinguish [n̪n̪ nn] and [t̪t̪ tt], although those sequences only ever occur across morpheme boundaries.Matrix wrote:You think a monolingual English speaker with no linguistic training/interest is gonna be able to distinguish between alveolar and dental stops?
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
IME even (possibly multilingual) AmE speakers with linguistic training can't distinguish between those. But idk, maybe some can.Nortaneous wrote:Monolingual AmE speakers with no linguistic training/interest can probably distinguish [n̪n̪ nn] and [t̪t̪ tt], although those sequences only ever occur across morpheme boundaries.
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Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
what, how do they realize /-n ð-/ /-t ð-/ sequences
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
[n̪ð] and [t̪ð], I think. Although of course I haven't recorded them and made spectrograms or anything
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
I can corroborate this from my own dialect, mostly standard West Coast fare with a sprinkling of Canadian Raising.Vijay wrote:[n̪ð] and [t̪ð], I think. Although of course I haven't recorded them and made spectrograms or anything
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Well, in reality, most instances of them are going to be [n̪(n̪)] and [ʔð] I'm pretty sure. The /ð/ of grammatical words is usually swallowed by the preceding nasal, and off the top of my head I'm not coming up with other instances where a cluster of /nð/ would come up. And I think I only have contact for coda /t/ before alveolars, i.e. not /θ ð ɻ/ despite being coronals (I know /ɻ/ is that way, I'm not 100% on the dentals).
Also I really don't think most English speakers will be able to tell dentals from alveolars anyways, the functional load is so low that it doesn't matter if /nð/ is distinguished from /n/ by dental versus alveolar, there's no chance of confusing them in meaning.
Also I really don't think most English speakers will be able to tell dentals from alveolars anyways, the functional load is so low that it doesn't matter if /nð/ is distinguished from /n/ by dental versus alveolar, there's no chance of confusing them in meaning.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
I just sat here whispering to myself, "[bɹ̩n̪ n̪ə wɪt͡ʃ]!...[bɹ̩n̪ n̪ə wɪt͡ʃ]!!"
I don't think most English-speakers will distinguish dental vs. alveolar stops - but I'm not sure they necessarily distinguish dental stops vs. /θ ð/, either. Dental stops just aren't phonemic in English. (Well, at least I don't think they are in most varieties of English...).
I don't think most English-speakers will distinguish dental vs. alveolar stops - but I'm not sure they necessarily distinguish dental stops vs. /θ ð/, either. Dental stops just aren't phonemic in English. (Well, at least I don't think they are in most varieties of English...).