Old Mkroh is a language I've started working on that is descended from Proto-Tshyak, but which has radically changed its syntax and morphology from a SVO, head-initial, serial verb-heavy language with minimal nominal morphology to an SOV, mostly head-final, case-heavy language (while still retaining serial verbs).
Aside from word order and syntax, its largest innovation is its cases which, aside from its ergative and absolutive cases, are derived from serial verbs that became reduced and attached to their objects as clitics (cases attach to NPs rather than to nouns). Also, while Proto-Tshyak only marks animate nouns for number, it has innovated marking inanimate nouns for number as well, combining this with an animacy distinction for dual and plural nouns in all cases (Proto-Tshyak only distinguished animacy in ergative case). It largely preserves Proto-Tshyak verbal morphology, aside from innovating number marking on verbs for the animate argument that is highest in the person hierarchy (derived from Proto-Tshyak number marking for SAPs).
Anyways, I should post something else about it, so you do not have to go to the link above, so here is the phonology:
Consonants
Nasals: /m mʲ n nʷ nʲ ɲ ŋ ŋʷ/ m my n ny nw ŋy ŋ ŋw
Voiced stops: /b bʲ d dʷ dʲ ɟ g gʷ/ b by d dw dy gy g gw
Unaspirated voiceless stops: /p pʲ t tʷ tʲ c k kʷ ʔ ʔʷ ʔʲ/ p py t tw ty ky k kw ʔ ʔw ʔy
Aspirated voiceless stops: /pʰ pʲʰ tʰ tʷʰ tʲʰ cʰ kʰ kʷʰ/ ph pyh th twh tyh kyh kh kwh
Voiced affricates: /dz dzʷ dzʲ dʑ dʑʷ/ dz dzw dzy dź dźw
Unaspirated voiceless africates: /ts tsʷ tsʲ tɕ tɕʷ/ ts tsw tsy tś tśw
Aspirated voiceless affricates: /tsʰ tsʷʰ tsʲʰ tɕʰ tɕʷʰ/ tsh tswh tsyh tśh tśwh
Fricatives: /ʍ s sʷ sʲ ɕ ɕʷ ɬ ɬʷ ç h/ hw s sw sy ś św hl hlw hy h
Voiceless liquids: /ɻ̥ ɻ̥ʷ/ hr hrw
Voiced liquids: /ɻ ɻʷ l lʷ/ r rw l lw
Semivowels: /w j/ w y
Vowels
Monophthongs
Close: /i u/ i u
Mid: /e/ [ə] /o/ e o
Open: /a/ a
Diphthongs
Rising: /iə uə/ ie uo
Tones
High: í é á ó ú íe úo
Mid-rising: ǐ ě ǎ ǒ ǔ ǐe ŭo
Mid: i e a o u ie uo
Low: ì è à ò ù ìe ùo
Syllable Structure and Phonotactics
C({ɻ l w j})V({p t k m n ŋ ɻ l w j})
Initial syllables may be preceded by prefixes of /ʔ ɻ l/ followed by [ə] except for syllables starting in approximants. /w j/ can only follow /ʔ/. /ɻ l/ can only follow nasals, plosives, and sibilant fricatives, and /l/ cannot follow coronal plosives. Nominal suffixes tend to be open syllables even when historically derived from closed syllables. Non-initial syllables also tend to be unaspirated.
Old Mkroh
- Nortaneous
- Sumerul

- Posts: 4544
- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 am
- Location: the Imperial Corridor
Re: Old Mkroh
Why are these clusters not /ʔʷ/ and /ʔʲ/?/w j/ can only follow /ʔ/.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
- Chengjiang
- Avisaru

- Posts: 437
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:41 am
- Location: Davis, CA
Re: Old Mkroh
Can liquids follow a palatalized consonant? If so, is the liquid allophonically palatalized?
[ʈʂʰɤŋtɕjɑŋ], or whatever you can comfortably pronounce that's close to that
Formerly known as Primordial Soup
Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.
Formerly known as Primordial Soup
Supporter of use of [ȶ ȡ ȵ ȴ] in transcription
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a 青.
Re: Old Mkroh
Liquids can only follow non-palatalized, non-labialized consonants. They derive from historically labialized liquids, which were labialized instead of the consonant before it, and which later were delabialized, while non-labialized liquids after consonants in onsets shifted to j, which then became palatalization of the preceding consonants.Chengjiang wrote:Can liquids follow a palatalized consonant? If so, is the liquid allophonically palatalized?
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: Old Mkroh
Here are three examples:
You ate all the food.
The king ruled the land from the sea to the sea.
You talk about Mkroh all day long.
Stop pissing on the grass!
I speak Mkroh instead of Tshyak.
| Byè |
| all |
| kyá |
| food |
| -ʔyá |
| -DEF |
| la- |
| RES.PFV- |
| mà |
| eat.PFV |
| -śe |
| -DIR |
| -ʔǎk. |
| -2 |
You ate all the food.
| Swuoy |
| king |
| -á |
| -DEF |
| -li |
| -ERG.ANIM |
| tsǐey |
| sea |
| -á |
| -DEF |
| yuo |
| -ABL |
| na |
| REL |
| yo |
| 3.SG |
| tsǐey |
| sea |
| -á |
| -DEF |
| -lè |
| -LAT |
| na |
| REL |
| srò |
| land |
| -ra |
| -DEF |
| dźěk |
| rule.IPFV |
| -húo. |
| -REP |
The king ruled the land from the sea to the sea.
| Rkyǎn |
| language |
| -grò |
| -Mkroh |
| -ʔyá |
| -DEF |
| -hwǒ |
| -ADE |
| byè |
| all |
| khów |
| day |
| -tsú |
| -INE |
| kwhò |
| speak.IPFV |
| -śe |
| -DIR |
| -ʔǎk. |
| -2 |
You talk about Mkroh all day long.
| Phrúoŋyá |
| grass.DEF |
| -hwǎ |
| -ALL |
| mǐy |
| urinate.IPFV |
| tyhǎk! |
| stop.PFV |
Stop pissing on the grass!
| Tsǎkyá |
| Tshyak.DEF |
| yo |
| 3.SG |
| rǐkyá |
| place.DEF |
| -tsú |
| -INE |
| na |
| REL |
| grò |
| Mkroh |
| -ʔyá |
| -DEF |
| -mǐ |
| -INST |
| kwhò |
| speak.IPFV |
| -śe |
| -DIR |
| -ʔám. |
| -1 |
I speak Mkroh instead of Tshyak.
Last edited by Travis B. on Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:40 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: Old Mkroh
Because in clusters of /ʔ/ and a following sonorant, I treat the /ʔ/ more as a preinitial and the sonorant as an initial rather than /ʔ/ as the initial and the sonorant as the medial. Or in other words, /ʔ/ does not palatalize or labialize, and sonorants after them are preserved.Nortaneous wrote:Why are these clusters not /ʔʷ/ and /ʔʲ/?/w j/ can only follow /ʔ/.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: Old Mkroh
For the record, in Proto-Tshyak there were a rounded series and an unrounded series of back vowels; rounded back vowels and /w/ labialized non-labial, non-palatal, non-/ʔ/ consonants before them, and in turn unrounded back vowels rounded and /w/ was lost except after /ʔ/. Afterwards /j/ was lost after consonants except after /h/, where it had already merged with it as [ç], and /ʔ/. Subsequently, non-labialized /ɻ l/ > [j j] > palatalization and then /ɻʷ lʷ/ > [ɻ l]. Note that this did not all happen at once, which is reflected by coverbs that turned into case endings causing palatalization from initial /j/ even after /j/ after C had been originally lost in roots themselves.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: Old Mkroh
I change my mind; I will have glides after /ʔ/ behave like glides after any initial.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.