Romanization challenge thread

[Knit Tie]

I did it the way did it because these are supposed to be isolationist English speakers, right? There is no foreign influence except for using regular vowels rather than English ones, as well as <ü> because it is common in metal bands to add umlauts and also to say something is über. Also, why is the orthography reformed if you can have a super complicated one based off the natural evolution of an unregulated alphabet?

Isolationist English speakers who are from a multitude of different cultures and speak English mostly because it was the lingua franca of their space colonist ancestors, plus they were heavily into promoting immigration (followed by assimilation, of course) when the orthographic reform occured.

Why bother showing this contrast when it can be inferred from context and a native speaker's memory of how words are pronounced?

To make it easier for all the non-native speakers to read, now that they are easing up on the isolationism and picking up on imperialism.

[mèþru]

Non-Dravidian members of the colony (I’m assuming that Dravidian speakers are not a majority) will have trouble differentiating dental from alveolar stops, so I think that the merger should be as soon as the dental fricatives become stops. Also, what happens to /w/ in a postvocalic position besides those after /a o/?

[Vijay]

Dravidian

*ears perk up*

[Dē Graut Bʉr]

/nɒmúθ/

/p b t d k g/
/f v θ s z ʃ ʒ x~h/
/m n ɲ (ŋ)/
/r l/

/a ɛ i œ y ɒ ʌ u/

Stressed vowels (stress is always word-final) distinguish two tones.

/ŋ/ occurs only before velars, where no other nasals appear.

/h/ and /x/ are allophones with /h/ appearing at the beginning of words and /x/ elsewhere.

/ɛfœ̀θ míf || ʃìs ɲɛ̀rp lʌ̀nt pɒlskì kúk ɒ̀ ɒ́θ ɲɛ̀rp ɛ́θ || zɛ̀s ì ʃìk || ɒ́θ vɒ́s kɛ̀ns rɛ́m vɒ̀ ì zɛ̀s || ɛ́θ œslàs ì rɛ́m ʃɛvɒ̀ ì milʌ̀nt kúk/

[Knit Tie]

Non-Dravidian members of the colony (I’m assuming that Dravidian speakers are not a majority) will have trouble differentiating dental from alveolar stops, so I think that the merger should be as soon as the dental fricatives become stops. Also, what happens to /w/ in a postvocalic position besides those after /a o/?

Some modern varieties of English do distinguish between dental and alveolar stops already without being Dravidian, so I'd say that it's plausible. As for the postvocalic /w/ after vowels other than /a/, /o/ and /u/, it remains there to this day.

We really shouldn't discuss the actual conland in the romanisation challenge thread, methinks.

[mèþru]

Agreed. Can someone please move this stuff to another thread?

[Nortaneous]

/nɒmúθ/ Namúth

/p b t d k g/ <p b t d k g>
/f v θ s z ʃ ʒ x~h/ <f v th s z x j h>
/m n ɲ (ŋ)/ <m n ny>
/r l/ <r l>

/a ɛ i œ y ɒ ʌ u/ <ai e i oi ui a o u>

/ɛfœ̀θ míf || ʃìs ɲɛ̀rp lʌ̀nt pɒlskì kúk ɒ̀ ɒ́θ ɲɛ̀rp ɛ́θ || zɛ̀s ì ʃìk || ɒ́θ vɒ́s kɛ̀ns rɛ́m vɒ̀ ì zɛ̀s || ɛ́θ œslàs ì rɛ́m ʃɛvɒ̀ ì milʌ̀nt kúk/
Efoith míf. Xis nyerp lont Palski kúk a áth nyerp éth. Zes i xik. Ath vás kens rém va i zes. Eth oislas i rém xeva i milont kúk.

[Knit Tie]

/nɒmúθ/ Namuiț

/p b t d k g/ <p b t d k g>
/f v θ s z ʃ ʒ x~h/ <f v ț s z ș z̗ h>
/m n ɲ (ŋ)/ <m n nj>
/r l/ <r l>

/a ɛ i œ y ɒ ʌ u/ <aj e y o uj a ae u>

Stressed vowels distinguish two tones. <a ai>

/ɛfœ̀θ míf || ʃìs ɲɛ̀rp lʌ̀nt pɒlskì kúk ɒ̀ ɒ́θ ɲɛ̀rp ɛ́θ || zɛ̀s ì ʃìk || ɒ́θ vɒ́s kɛ̀ns rɛ́m vɒ̀ ì zɛ̀s || ɛ́θ œslàs ì rɛ́m ʃɛvɒ̀ ì milʌ̀nt kúk/
Efoț myif. Șys njerp laent palsky kuik a aiț njerp eiț. Zes y șyk. Aiț vais kens reim va y zes. Eiț oslas y reim șeva y milaent kuik.

[Frislander]

/p t t͡ʃ kʷ q/
/p’ t’ t͡ʃ’ kʷ’ q’ ʔ/
/ɬ ʃ xʷ χ h/
/m l j w/

(the second x is uvular)

When stressed, the vowels are /i e a (ə)/

When unstressed the vowels are /i ə/

Syllable structure permits large numbers of complex consonant clusters.

I'm not sure if I want the schwa to be able to take stress, so could I have two versions, one where is can and one where it can't.

[Frislander]

By the way, I just want to say I love the idea of using a historical phantom island as the location of your conlang. I'm surprised I haven't seen it around here before. Granted, since I'm only intermittently active here I may just have missed other examples.

Someone here recently staked a claim on Estotiland, also in the North Atlantic for a similar project.

Anyway, /nɒmúθ/

/p b t d k g/ <p b t d k g>
/f v θ s z ʃ ʒ x~h/ <f v th s z x j h>
/m n ɲ (ŋ)/ <m n ny (n)>
/r l/ <r l>

/a ɛ i œ y ɒ ʌ u/ <a e i oe ue o u ou>

Stressed vowels distinguish two tones: high is marked with an acute and low with a grave in polysyllables and unmarked in monosyllables. With digraphs the tone is marked only on the first vowel.

/ŋ/ is written <n> before velars.

/ɛfœ̀θ míf || ʃìs ɲɛ̀rp lʌ̀nt pɒlskì kúk ɒ̀ ɒ́θ ɲɛ̀rp ɛ́θ || zɛ̀s ì ʃìk || ɒ́θ vɒ́s kɛ̀ns rɛ́m vɒ̀ ì zɛ̀s || ɛ́θ œslàs ì rɛ́m ʃɛvɒ̀ ì milʌ̀nt kúk/
<efòeth míf || xis nyerp lunt polskì kóuk o óth nyerp éth || zes i xik || óth vós kens rém vo i zes || éth oeslàs i rém xevò i milùnt kóuk>

[mèþru]

Namúþ

<p b t d k g>
<f v þ s z š ž h>
<m n ň>
<r l>

<ae e i oe y a o u>

<à á>

Efòeþ míf. Šìs ňèrp ònt palskì kúk à áþ ňèrp éþ. Zès ì šìk. Áþ vás kèns rém và ì zès. Éþ oeslàes ì rém ševà ì milònt kúk.

agefaqeg-style:

naomúþ

<p b t d k g>
<f v þ s z š ž h>
<m n ṅ>
<r l>

<ȅ è i a y ao ɇ u>

èfaþ míf, šis ṅèrp lɇnt paolski kuk ao aoþ ṅèrp èþ, zès i šik, aoþ vaos kèns rèm vao i zès, èþ aslȅs i rèm šèvao i milɇnt kuk,

[opipik]

/nɒmúθ/ <Nomúth>

/p b t d k g/ <p b t d k c>
/f v θ s z ʃ ʒ x~h/ <f w th s z sh j x>
/m n ɲ (ŋ)/ <m n gn>
/r l/ <r l>

/a ɛ i œ y ɒ ʌ u/ <a e i o· u· o â u>

Stressed vowels distinguish two tones. <a~a̱ á>
<a̱> is used in polysyllabic words

/ŋ/ occurs only before velars, where no other nasals appear.

/h/ and /x/ are allophones with /h/ appearing at the beginning of words and /x/ elsewhere.

/ɛfœ̀θ míf || ʃìs ɲɛ̀rp lʌ̀nt pɒlskì kúk ɒ̀ ɒ́θ ɲɛ̀rp ɛ́θ || zɛ̀s ì ʃìk || ɒ́θ vɒ́s kɛ̀ns rɛ́m vɒ̀ ì zɛ̀s || ɛ́θ œslàs ì rɛ́m ʃɛvɒ̀ ì milʌ̀nt kúk/

Efo̱·th míf. Shis gnerp lânt polski kúk o óth gnerp éth. Zes i shik. Óth vós kens rém vo i zes. Éth o·sla̱s i rém shevo̱ i milâ̱nt kúk.

[Dē Graut Bʉr]

Perhaps I should've mentioned that stress in Nåmúþ is always word-final... Anyway.

----

/p t t͡ʃ kʷ q/ <p t c k q>
/p’ t’ t͡ʃ’ kʷ’ q’ ʔ/ <p' t' c' k' q' ʔ>
/ɬ ʃ xʷ χ h/ <ł s f x h>
/m l j w/ <m l j w>

When stressed, the vowels are /i e a (ə)/ <i e a (y)>

When unstressed the vowels are /i ə/ <i e>

Could you provide a sample sentence, or at least some gibberish which looks like a sample of this language?

[Frislander]

I should have specified that stress is mobile.

Here's some gibberish.

/təˈq’awməχɬti tə ˈxʷalt͡ʃəm p’ʃˈqəl ˈjikʷətəm ɬtiˈʔaʃq’ təχˈjam ʃmiˈt’alt͡ʃ/

[Dē Graut Bʉr]

I'm just going to stick with the romanisation I'd made up and ignore stress. It'll create a few ambiguities, but speakers can handle that. In language textbooks and dictionaries etc. you can use <é í> for stressed /e i/ in polysyllabic words..

/təq’ˈawməχɬti tə xʷˈalt͡ʃəm p’ʃqˈəl yˈikʷətəm ɬtiʔˈaʃq’ təχjˈam smit’ˈalt͡ʃ/
Teq'awmexłti te falcem p'sqyl jiketem łtiʔasq' texjam smit'alc.
Teq'awmexłti te falcem p'sqel jíketem łtiʔasq' texjam smit'alc.

Your sample contains /y/ and /s/ while the phoneme inventory you provided doesn't. I assume these are supposed to be /j/ and /ʃ/ respectively. Also, the stress sign is placed before the stressed syllable rather than before the vowel, so unless you have weird syllabification rules, you put it in the wrong place a few times.

[Frislander]

I'm just going to stick with the romanisation I'd made up and ignore stress. It'll create a few ambiguities, but speakers can handle that. In language textbooks and dictionaries etc. you can use <é í> for stressed /e i/ in polysyllabic words..

/təq’ˈawməχɬti tə xʷˈalt͡ʃəm p’ʃqˈəl yˈikʷətəm ɬtiʔˈaʃq’ təχjˈam smit’ˈalt͡ʃ/
Teq'awmexłti te falcem p'sqyl jiketem łtiʔasq' texjam smit'alc.
Teq'awmexłti te falcem p'sqel jíketem łtiʔasq' texjam smit'alc.

Your sample contains /y/ and /s/ while the phoneme inventory you provided doesn't. I assume these are supposed to be /j/ and /ʃ/ respectively. Also, the stress sign is placed before the stressed syllable rather than before the vowel, so unless you have weird syllabification rules, you put it in the wrong place a few times.

Ah, OK, will edit.

[Nortaneous]

Rxnm rxnm xxgl axrm zhhf addm, zyyf zunl aenm hxxm qvnm liif xagf pigm dxgk. Taal mxnt fuuf addm liik xigf hxxm legm xinl, bigf aigl aiik xygl diif gonl xiif dxxt jigl xxnm huuf xegl dbbf dyyf.

Rxt rxt xxg axl zhi ade, zyi zun aet hxe qvt lii xac pik dxx. Taa mxz fui ade lio xic hxe lek xin, bic aig aio xyg dii gon xii dxu jig xxt hui xeg dbi dyi.

[Chengjiang]

/nɒmúθ/ Nomuth

/p b t d k g/ p b t d k g
/f v θ s z ʃ ʒ x~h/ f v th s z sh zh h
/m n ɲ (ŋ)/ m n nh n
/r l/ r l

/a ɛ i œ y ɒ ʌ u/ a e i oe y o eo u

Since tone is only distinguished on stressed vowels and there are only two tones, I might just leave tone out of the romanization, although if you want to indicate it I'd pick one of the two tones (the less common one, if there is one) and mark it with a diacritic on the vowel. (The first vowel letter, in digraphs.)

/ɛfœ̀θ míf || ʃìs ɲɛ̀rp lʌ̀nt pɒlskì kúk ɒ̀ ɒ́θ ɲɛ̀rp ɛ́θ || zɛ̀s ì ʃìk || ɒ́θ vɒ́s kɛ̀ns rɛ́m vɒ̀ ì zɛ̀s || ɛ́θ œslàs ì rɛ́m ʃɛvɒ̀ ì milʌ̀nt kúk/

Efoeth mif. Shis nherp leont polski kuk o oth nherp eth. Zes i shik. Oth vos kens rem vo. Eth oeslas i rem shevo i mileont kuk.

[Nortaneous]

Standard Pannonian:

/p b t d k g/
/ts tʃ tɕ/
/f s ʃ ɕ x~h/
/z ʒ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/l ʎ r j v/
/æ ɑ e ø ə o i y ɨ u/ + lots of diphthongs + length, which varies with / comes from following schwa (which is retained to the exclusion of length when dropping it would break phonotactics)
a few different tones probably but those can be unwritten
schwa only appears in unstressed syllables

/krɨi æːv, kihjə vəlːi ɲi jɨht, juːʃəx piːʃt, ynən jə krum vɑʒən jɨʒən viʒəntən ynənki miʒɑn bɑrən, ynənki ʒminən uoʃ birəntən/

[smii]

Standard Pannonian:

/p b t d k g/ <p b t d k g>
/ts tʃ tɕ/ <ts x c>
/f s ʃ ɕ x~h/ <f s sh ch h>
/z ʒ/ <z zh>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ny ng>
/l ʎ r j v/ <l lj r j v>
/ɑ ə ɨ o u æ e i ø y/ <a e i o u á é í ó ú>
+ lots of diphthongs + length, which varies with / comes from following schwa (which is retained to the exclusion of length when dropping it would break phonotactics)
a few different tones probably but those can be unwritten
schwa only appears in unstressed syllables

/krɨi æːv, kihjə vəlːi ɲi jɨht, juːʃəx piːʃt, ynən jə krum vɑʒən jɨʒən viʒəntən ynənki miʒɑn bɑrən, ynənki ʒminən uoʃ birəntən/
<krií ááv, kíhíje vellí nyí jiht, juusheh píísht, únen je krum vazhen jizhen vízhenten únenkí mízhan baren, únenkí zhmínen uosh bírenten.>

[Nortaneous]

Krüj ähw, kichje vèlli ni jücht, juhszech pihszt, ünen jè krum ważen jüżen wiżenten ünenki miżan baren, ünenki żminen uosz birenten. Ähw tè jüszwün wöhk: "Szier njètär mü juhszech jieżent njühr eidènti. Juhszech tè wöhk: "Szlèdżi, äwi, szier dze njètär èngwi üdèmmäs."

[opipik]

/p b t d k g/ <p b t d k g>
/ts tʃ tɕ/ <c č ć>
/f s ʃ ɕ x~h/ <f s š ś ch~h>
/z ʒ/ <z ž>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ň ŋ>
/l ʎ r j v/ <l ľ r j v>
/æ ɑ e ø ə o i y ɨ u/ <ä a é ö e o i ü y u>
+ lots of diphthongs + length, <VV>
which varies with / comes from following schwa (which is retained to the exclusion of length when dropping it would break phonotactics)
a few different tones probably but those can be unwritten
schwa only appears in unstressed syllables

/krɨi æːv, kihjə vəlːi ɲi jɨht, juːʃəx piːʃt, ynən jə krum vɑʒən jɨʒən viʒəntən ynənki miʒɑn bɑrən, ynənki ʒminən uoʃ birəntən/

Kryi ääv, kihje velli ňi jyht, juušech piišt, ünen je krum važen jyžen viženten ünenki mižan baren. ünenki žminen uoš birenten.

[Nortaneous]

shit let's be tibetan

Krvy ähw, kihy wlli ni yvtt, yuucx piict, uinn y krum wajn wijntn uinnki mijan barn, uinnki jminn uoc birntn.

[Knit Tie]

Ilosean Shayana Mk II.

Consonants:
/pʰ~pʰx p~px pʰʲ~pʰʲj pʲ~pʲj tʰ~tʰx t~tx tʰʲ~tʰʲj tʲ~tʲj kʰ~kʰx k~kx kʰʲ~kʰʲj c͡ç~c ʔ/
/m~m͡w mʲ~mʲj n~n͡x nʲ~nʲj~ɲ ŋ/
/ɾ~ɾ͡x/
/t͡sʰː~t͡sʰːx t͡s~t͡sx t͡sʰʲː~t͡sʰʲːj t͡sʲ~t͡sʲj t͡ʂ̺ʰː t͡ʂ̺ t͡ɕ̻ʰː t͡ɕ̻/
/f~fx fʲ s~sx sʲ~sʲj ʂ̺ ɕ̻ x~xw xʲ~xʲj/
/ɹ~ɹj~ʒ~z~ə j ɰᵝ/
/lʲ~lʲj~ʎ ɫ~ɫ͡x/

Vowels:
/ɪ u e ə o ɐ/
/i: u: e: ə: o: ä:/
/ɪ̃ ĩ: ũ ũ: ɛ̃ ɛ̃: ə̃˩ ə̃:˩ ɔ̃ ɔ̃: ɐ̃ ä̃:/
/ɪ˩ u˩ e˩ ə˩ o˩ ɐ˩/
/i:˩ u:˩ e:˩ ə:˩ o:˩ ä:˩/
/ɪ̃˩ ĩ:˩ ũ˩ ũ˩: ɛ̃˩ ɛ̃˩: ɔ̃˩ ɔ̃˩: ɐ̃˩ ä̃˩:/

Nasal vowels and vowel + nasal sequences contrast like it's French, geminated consonants are everywhere like it's Finno-Ugric. Palatalised consonant and consonant + /j/ sequences never contrast, just like non-palatalised consonant and consonant + /x/ sequences.

Some gibberish in the shape of a sentence:
/i:ɫos mʲi:rɪkɕ̻ i:ʂ̺ ji:rmɐ̃ e:ɫ͡xeus:ːũ i:nʲjə̃:˩ ɛ̃: nʲi:s͡xe˩ɹə:j xʲi:ʂ̺/

[opipik]

/pʰ~pʰx p~px pʰʲ~pʰʲj pʲ~pʲj tʰ~tʰx t~tx tʰʲ~tʰʲj tʲ~tʲj kʰ~kʰx k~kx kʰʲ~kʰʲj c͡ç~c ʔ/ <ph p ph' p' th t th' t' kh k kh' k' c>
/m~m͡w mʲ~mʲj n~n͡x nʲ~nʲj~ɲ ŋ/ <mw m' n n' ng>
/ɾ~ɾ͡x/ <r>
/t͡sʰː~t͡sʰːx t͡s~t͡sx t͡sʰʲː~t͡sʰʲːj t͡sʲ~t͡sʲj t͡ʂ̺ʰː t͡ʂ̺ t͡ɕ̻ʰː t͡ɕ̻/ <tts ts tts' ts' ttr tr cch ch>
/f~fx fʲ s~sx sʲ~sʲj ʂ̺ ɕ̻ x~xw xʲ~xʲj/ <f f' s s' rr sh xw x'>
/ɹ~ɹj~ʒ~z~ə j ɰᵝ/ <z y w>
/lʲ~lʲj~ʎ ɫ~ɫ͡x/ <l' l>

Vowels:
/ɪ u e ə o ɐ/ <i u e ü o a>
/i: u: e: ə: o: ä:/ <ii uu ee üü oo aa>
/ɪ̃ ĩ: ũ ũ: ɛ̃ ɛ̃: ə̃˩ ə̃:˩ ɔ̃ ɔ̃: ɐ̃ ä̃:/ <i̱ i̱i̱ u̱ u̱u̱ e̱ e̱e̱ û̱ û̱û̱ o̱ o̱o̱ a̱ a̱a̱>
/ɪ˩ u˩ e˩ ə˩ o˩ ɐ˩/ <ì ù è û ò à>
/i:˩ u:˩ e:˩ ə:˩ o:˩ ä:˩/ <ìì ùù èè ûû òò àà>
/ɪ̃˩ ĩ:˩ ũ˩ ũ˩: ɛ̃˩ ɛ̃˩: ɔ̃˩ ɔ̃˩: ɐ̃˩ ä̃˩:/ <ì̱ ì̱ì̱ ù̱ ù̱ù̱ è̱ è̱è̱ ò̱ ò̱ò̱ à̱ à̱à̱>

Nasal vowels and vowel + nasal sequences contrast like it's French, geminated consonants are everywhere like it's Finno-Ugric.

[i:ɫos mʲi:rɪkɕ̻ i:ʂ̺ ji:rmɐ̃ e:ɫ͡xeus:ːũ i:nʲjə̃:˩ ɛ̃: nʲi:s͡xe˩ɹə:j xʲi:ʂ̺]

Iilos m'iiriksh iirr yiizma̱ eeleussu̱ iin'û̱ e̱e̱ n'iisèzüüy x'iirr

----

Tuvan

/pʰ p tʰ t kʰ k/
/m n ŋ/
/ɾ/
/s z ʃ ʒ x/
/ʋ l j/

/i y ɯ u e ø o a/
/iː yː ɯː uː eː øː oː aː/
/ì ỳ ɯ̀ ù è ø̀ ò à/

/ol yete pyky ʧeɾniŋ kʰɯɾɯnka ʧaŋkɯs tɯl, oːŋ ʧaŋkɯs хeʋiɾi tʰuɾkan. ʧøːn ʧykʰ uklaj kʰøʃkʰeʃ, kʰiʒileɾ sennaːɾ tepʰ ʧeɾte oɾkulaːʃ tʰɯpʰ alkaʃ, aŋaː tʰuɾumʧupʰ alkannaɾ. olaɾ «tojtan tʰuːjpulaɾnɯ kʰɯlkaʃ, otʰka øɾtʰtetipʰ alɯːlɯŋaɾ» – tepʰ symeleʃkʰenneɾ. taʃ oɾnunka tʰuːjpulaɾnɯ, olaɾnɯ pɯʒɯkʰtɯɾ tʰutuʃtʰuɾaɾɯnka malkaʃtʰɯ aʒɯklaːnnaɾ. «xoːɾajtan tʰutupʰ alɯːlɯŋaɾ, petiː teːɾke ʧetipʰ tʰuɾaɾ suːɾkatan paza. ʧɯɾɯkʰ ʧeɾke is ʧokʰ tʰaɾaj peɾpezi-pile, pis atɯʋɯstʰɯ ɯnʧaːɾ altaɾʒɯtɯpʰ aːɾ pis» – teːnneɾ. kʰiʒileɾniŋ tʰutupʰ tʰuɾaɾ хoːɾajɯn paza suːɾkazɯn kʰøːɾ teːʃ, teːɾki-ʧajakʰʧɯ ʧeɾʒe tyʒypʰ kʰelken./