Would /ju:/ pronounced as /iu~iw/ mean "an" as the article?

Discussion of natural languages, or language in general.
Post Reply
Seirios
Sanci
Sanci
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:26 am
Location: Shenzhen, Guangdong, China

Would /ju:/ pronounced as /iu~iw/ mean "an" as the article?

Post by Seirios »

A not insignificant number of English dialects pronounce what is /juː/ in RP and GA as some form of /iu/ -- such as /ɪu/ or /iːw/.

Question: what indefinite singular article do speakers of these dialects use before words beginning with such diphthong in their dialect? Is it "a" as other dialects use, especially mainstream and "orthodox" ones, or "an", as would the rule of using the indefinite singular article dictate (i.e. "a" if the next phonological word begins with consonants; "an" if vowels)? Or is it some alternation of the two, so people sometimes use "a" and sometimes "an"?

Examples: usual(-ly), unit(-y), unite(-d), unicorn, union, uniform(-ly), use/usage/using/used, unique(-ly), uvular, university, universe/-al(-ly), unitary/-ily, (? UK, US, UV, URL, U(-whatever) ), ewe, euphonic, euphoric(-ally), euphemism/-istic(-ally), Eucharist, Europe(-an), Euro, Eugene/-nia, euthanasia, eugenic(s), eudemon(-ia), Euclidean

=========================

I post this question because as a L2 English speaker I happen to use such a pronunciation. Recently I find myself unconsciously wanting to use "an" instead of "a" before such words since I've come to the US. I am one single L2 speaker so the linguistic rules I follow might not be exactly so generally true; that's why I'm asking native speakers and other L2 English speakers, and people who have knowledge, experience, or opinions about this.

=========================

Another question that is relevant is, would someone using /iu~iw/ (broadly speaking) distinguish any of these from another in pronunciation: you, yew, ewe (or, yule, you'll) ?
Last edited by Seirios on Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:58 am, edited 8 times in total.
Always an adventurer, I guess.
-
Tone: Chao's notation.
Apical vowels: [ɿ]≈[z̞̩], [ʅ]≈[ɻ̞̩], [ʮ]≈[z̞̩ʷ], [ʯ]≈[ɻ̞̩ʷ].
Vowels: [ᴇ]=Mid front unrounded, [ᴀ]=Open central unrounded, [ⱺ]=Mid back rounded, [ⱻ]=Mid back unrounded.

Axiem
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Would /ju:/ pronounced as /iu~iw/ mean "an" as the artic

Post by Axiem »

Can you provide an example word? I'm struggling a little to come up with an example, myself.

Seirios
Sanci
Sanci
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:26 am
Location: Shenzhen, Guangdong, China

Re: Would /ju:/ pronounced as /iu~iw/ mean "an" as the artic

Post by Seirios »

Axiem wrote:Can you provide an example word? I'm struggling a little to come up with an example, myself.
Sorry -- added.
Always an adventurer, I guess.
-
Tone: Chao's notation.
Apical vowels: [ɿ]≈[z̞̩], [ʅ]≈[ɻ̞̩], [ʮ]≈[z̞̩ʷ], [ʯ]≈[ɻ̞̩ʷ].
Vowels: [ᴇ]=Mid front unrounded, [ᴀ]=Open central unrounded, [ⱺ]=Mid back rounded, [ⱻ]=Mid back unrounded.

User avatar
Jonlang
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:21 am
Location: Cymru
Contact:

Re: Would /ju:/ pronounced as /iu~iw/ mean "an" as the artic

Post by Jonlang »

Where I come from, in South Wales, many people pronounce it as /ɪw/ or /ɪu̯/ (something like that). So words like use are realised as /ɪwz/ or Europe as /ɪwrʌp/.
My conlangery Twitter: @Jonlang_
Me? I'm just a lawn-mower; you can tell me by the way I walk.

User avatar
Salmoneus
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3197
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: One of the dark places of the world

Re: Would /ju:/ pronounced as /iu~iw/ mean "an" as the artic

Post by Salmoneus »

My strong intuition is that the pronunciation doesn't affect the 'an'/'a' choice, presumably because that rule is no longer fully productive. But I don't have an accent like that, so I can't say for sure. But I don't think I've ever heard things like "an unicorn".

However, in some dialects some [Iw] is original, so should never have triggered 'an'. It's thus conceivable that a dialect might have "a yew" but "an ewe". And I can sort of imagine some extremely rural dialect still having 'an ewe'. However, I don't actually have contact with those dialects, so I can't say whether that imagination is actually accurate or not.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

User avatar
KathTheDragon
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2139
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:48 am
Location: Brittania

Re: Would /ju:/ pronounced as /iu~iw/ mean "an" as the artic

Post by KathTheDragon »

Salmoneus wrote:My strong intuition is that the pronunciation doesn't affect the 'an'/'a' choice, presumably because that rule is no longer fully productive.
Really?

User avatar
Jonlang
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:21 am
Location: Cymru
Contact:

Re: Would /ju:/ pronounced as /iu~iw/ mean "an" as the artic

Post by Jonlang »

Salmoneus wrote:My strong intuition is that the pronunciation doesn't affect the 'an'/'a' choice, presumably because that rule is no longer fully productive. But I don't have an accent like that, so I can't say for sure. But I don't think I've ever heard things like "an unicorn".
Well, referring to my previous post, the pronunciations of words beginning with /ɪw/ would be used with an, not a. So 'an unicorn' would certainly be heard and would sound something like /ən ɪwnɪkɔːn/.
My conlangery Twitter: @Jonlang_
Me? I'm just a lawn-mower; you can tell me by the way I walk.

User avatar
Salmoneus
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3197
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: One of the dark places of the world

Re: Would /ju:/ pronounced as /iu~iw/ mean "an" as the artic

Post by Salmoneus »

Jonlang wrote:
Salmoneus wrote:My strong intuition is that the pronunciation doesn't affect the 'an'/'a' choice, presumably because that rule is no longer fully productive. But I don't have an accent like that, so I can't say for sure. But I don't think I've ever heard things like "an unicorn".
Well, referring to my previous post, the pronunciations of words beginning with /ɪw/ would be used with an, not a. So 'an unicorn' would certainly be heard and would sound something like /ən ɪwnɪkɔːn/.
Really? Huh. I've honestly never encountered that, and I do know some Welsh people. But if you say so. And it's "an" for both traditional /ju/ and /Iw/?
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

Axiem
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Would /ju:/ pronounced as /iu~iw/ mean "an" as the artic

Post by Axiem »

Seirios wrote: Examples: usual(-ly), unit(-y), unite(-d), unicorn, union, uniform(-ly), use/usage/using/used, unique(-ly), uvular, university, universe/-al(-ly), unitary/-ily, (? UK, US, UV, URL, U(-whatever) ), ewe, euphonic, euphoric(-ally), euphemism/-istic(-ally), Eucharist, Europe(-an), Euro, Eugene/-nia, euthanasia, eugenic(s), eudemon(-ia), Euclidean
I can't say I can recall any instance of someone using "an" with any of these, except someone mispronouncing "ewe" thinking it should be pronounced the same as "ew". I also haven't particularly noticed the /iu~iw/ change you've noted, but I don't have a particularly good ear for phonetics.

(Noting such as a speaker of GA, smack dab in the Midwest)

User avatar
Jonlang
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:21 am
Location: Cymru
Contact:

Re: Would /ju:/ pronounced as /iu~iw/ mean "an" as the artic

Post by Jonlang »

Salmoneus wrote:
Jonlang wrote:
Salmoneus wrote:My strong intuition is that the pronunciation doesn't affect the 'an'/'a' choice, presumably because that rule is no longer fully productive. But I don't have an accent like that, so I can't say for sure. But I don't think I've ever heard things like "an unicorn".
Well, referring to my previous post, the pronunciations of words beginning with /ɪw/ would be used with an, not a. So 'an unicorn' would certainly be heard and would sound something like /ən ɪwnɪkɔːn/.
Really? Huh. I've honestly never encountered that, and I do know some Welsh people. But if you say so. And it's "an" for both traditional /ju/ and /Iw/?
No, those Welshies, like myself, who use an initial /j/ (so it sounds more like /jɪwnɪkɔːn/ ) will use 'a' and not 'an'. The same people who say /ɪwnɪkɔːn/ are also likely to drop initial /h/ before a vowel, resulting in 'an' being used, so you'd hear "an house" instead of "a house" as /ən aus/ (or something similar).
My conlangery Twitter: @Jonlang_
Me? I'm just a lawn-mower; you can tell me by the way I walk.

User avatar
clawgrip
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1723
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:21 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: Would /ju:/ pronounced as /iu~iw/ mean "an" as the artic

Post by clawgrip »

KathTheDragon wrote:
Salmoneus wrote:My strong intuition is that the pronunciation doesn't affect the 'an'/'a' choice, presumably because that rule is no longer fully productive.
Really?
This confuses me as well, unless I'm simply misunderstanding the statement, because for me, the choice between a and an is absolutely based on pronunciation and is productive in the sense that I have no confusion about which one to use with which word, even if I have never seen the word before. If asked to add an indefinite article to the following Japanese traditional musical instruments (shō, ichigenkin, shamisen, atarigane, ryūteki, yamatogoto), I am sure we would get the same results. So perhaps I have just misunderstood you?

User avatar
KathTheDragon
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2139
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:48 am
Location: Brittania

Re: Would /ju:/ pronounced as /iu~iw/ mean "an" as the artic

Post by KathTheDragon »

It may be that Sal's idiolect has begun to lose the rule, and he's overgeneralising.

Travis B.
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 3570
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm
Location: Milwaukee, US

Re: Would /ju:/ pronounced as /iu~iw/ mean "an" as the artic

Post by Travis B. »

clawgrip wrote:
KathTheDragon wrote:
Salmoneus wrote:My strong intuition is that the pronunciation doesn't affect the 'an'/'a' choice, presumably because that rule is no longer fully productive.
Really?
This confuses me as well, unless I'm simply misunderstanding the statement, because for me, the choice between a and an is absolutely based on pronunciation and is productive in the sense that I have no confusion about which one to use with which word, even if I have never seen the word before. If asked to add an indefinite article to the following Japanese traditional musical instruments (shō, ichigenkin, shamisen, atarigane, ryūteki, yamatogoto), I am sure we would get the same results. So perhaps I have just misunderstood you?
Same thought here.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.

Post Reply