Lexicon Building

Substantial postings about constructed languages and constructed worlds in general. Good place to mention your own or evaluate someone else's. Put quick questions in C&C Quickies instead.
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Soap
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Re: Lexicon Building

Post by Soap »

Frislander wrote: Next: weed
This is difficult because there is no scientific term corresponding to the English word "weed"; it can basically mean any unwanted plant that isnt wider than your thumb or made of wood.

Poswa has pava "fast-growing weed" and pevo "name of a hallucinogenic weed". I have associated pevo in my mind with marijuana, but I think this is improper as the drug produced from it, as I conceive of it in my mind, does not strongly resemble marijuana. I think I am just contaminating the concept because of the use of the English word "weed" to refer to the marijuana plant. Pevo might make more sense as another word for the sleep flower, normally syfe, which I take to be equivalent to the opium poppy.

Pevo is also cognate to the word for strawberry, levo, although I've lengthened that word to levobampos, "heart-shaped strawberry", since otherwise it would collide with many other words. The word pevo should thus also be lengthened.


The word that produced syfe in Poswa was the Gold language sədhŭdi; this same root became kʷŏri in Khulls (sədh > sʷt > hʷt > kʷ) and sythuči in Thaoa. This is a feminine noun, in the branches that preserve gender, because sleep is feminine and the feminine gender overrules the "common animate" gender that flowers otherwise occupy, despite the fact that the word for "sleep" is not the head noun.


---------------
next:

cheap, inexpensive
Last edited by Soap on Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lexicon Building

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Soap wrote:
Frislander wrote: Next: weed
This is difficult because there is no scientific term corresponding to the English word "weed"; it can basically mean any unwanted plant that isnt wider than your thumb or made of wood.
Hmm, I know I've seen certain trees described as "invasive weeds".

Hmm, anyway ...

Wena:

dinggu - cheap, inexpensive item (basically "money small")

(Weird coincidence. I just came up with this about ten minutes ago.)

Next: coincidence, concidentally, coincidental, to happen to
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Re: Lexicon Building

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Tormiott (Rockall)

innadatt ˈinːɪðɪt (n) coincidence; chance, luck, fortune; (v) to be random, to be unplanned; to be incidental, to be coincidental
- inna- ˈinːa (pref) moving lightly, limber, lithely; tiptoeing, shuffling
- datt dɛt (n) step, footstep

____

next: to go around the back of...
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Re: Lexicon Building

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din wrote:Tormiott (Rockall)

innadatt ˈinːɪðɪt (n) coincidence; chance, luck, fortune; (v) to be random, to be unplanned; to be incidental, to be coincidental
- inna- ˈinːa (pref) moving lightly, limber, lithely; tiptoeing, shuffling
- datt dɛt (n) step, footstep

____

next: to go around the back of...
Poswa:
piža "behind, beyond, afterward"
pabbam "back (body part)"


waebo "circle, arc"
pupa "to avoid, walk around"

I lean towards using the first member from each list unless you're talking about an animal or person being walked around. Thus one could say
Talsafiam pižawaebabi.
I went around the back of the school.

The word for school is etymologically "place where children learn to count"; from tae "children" + usfa "to count, add up" + wa "to learn" + -m "place of", plus a bunch of sound rules.

----------

next:
tadpole
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Re: Lexicon Building

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Soap wrote:next:
tadpole
Tautisca: faffuncun, from faffa "frog", with the suffix -unc-us/-un/-a that denotes young of animals or descendants,

Next: beech (tree).

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Re: Lexicon Building

Post by Pogostick Man »

hwhatting wrote:Next: beech (tree)
Proto-Dujajikiswə dɛkkis /ˈt̪ɛkːis/ 'type of tree'

Next: limp, walk with a limp
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Re: Lexicon Building

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Pogostick Man wrote:next: limp, walk with a limp
Kala: tsimpa - be lame; move with difficulty; limp

next: to restrict; to restrain; constrained

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Re: Lexicon Building

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masako wrote: to restrict; to restrain; constrained
Poswa:

pafob "to hold in the hands; to trap, restrain"
piwi "to forbid, deny, disallow"

I see both words as having a similar meaning, despite the different definitions I give, because both words can be used metaphorically. However, in strict usage, pafob refers to a physical action and piwi to a verbal one.

Povopi paforebi.
I held the tadpole in my hands.

Pupae! Piwibabo wumpwas wufaep!
No! I won't let you watch the movie!

The "grandparent" language, Ġʷidiʕìləs (I usually just call it "Gold"), had had a very simple verb that covers both meanings: dus. Cant really give a sample sentence because I havent worked out the grammar for Gold yet, but since I intend for Poswa to be an extremely conservative language grammatically, it probably will not be much different than the two sample sentences above. I can say, though, that it becomes los in both Khulls and proto-Moonshine, čut in Thaoa, and us in Babakiam. However, the word appears only in a few compounds in Babakiam. It seems to appear in the commonest Babakiam word for "egg", and (I'm scratching my head here) apparently turns up in the Poswa and Pabappa words for "womb". That kind of makes sense, given that the Khulls/Proto-MS cognate of the word for womb is lon, but I dont really remember trying to tie that word to a word that means "trap, restrain". Sometimes I can't even remember my own ideas.

-------

next:

(ocean) current
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Re: Lexicon Building

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Soap wrote:next:

(ocean) current
Tautisca: ruti "flow, current" (Verbal noun of ruten "to flow"

Next: salt

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Re: Lexicon Building

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hwhatting wrote:Next: salt
Frislandian (revised version): hléksa [ˈɬěk.s̺ə] "salt/saltiness"

Next: randomly, without pattern
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Re: Lexicon Building

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Frislander wrote: Next: randomly, without pattern
Poswa:

bižellaes "random, unpredictable, uncontrolled". Literally "biželli-shaped", where biželli is a type of mushroom. Possibly video-game contamination here, as I coined this word when I thought that mushrooms were particularly springy and elastic, such that you could jump on one and end up somewhere else.
nišanampa "random; lifeless, and thus invulnerable to death". A word this size can only be a compound, but I dont seem to have derived an etymology for it anywhere, so Im not sure where it comes from.
pivovaplam "random; having no pattern", from pivova "pattern", itself a compound of pina "pattern" and bova "pattern, reliable future event" ... two morphemes that fell out of use as standalone words because their inflected forms collided with many other words.

Pabappa:
pastoppablam "without pattern", from pastoppa "pattern".
pammamusi "unpredictable", from pamma "to predict". I'm not sure if I'm going to stick with -musi for "un-VERB-able", but the root is definitely staying.

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next:

full, occupied, loaded
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Re: Lexicon Building

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Tormiott (Rockall):

ais ɛas
(v) to be full, to be filled up; to be fully loaded; to be complete; to be in its entirety, to be all of, whole (adjectival)
  • i mittgi ais i ˈmitːʕi ɛas – the whole book, the book in its entirety
esdan ˈəzdɪn
(v) to take up space, to fill a space; to occupy (both for rooms and in war)
- es- (pref) towards here; in, through, or into something; at something; forward
- dan (v) to take (changing possession); take in one's hands

_________

next: doorknob (or handle, or whatever mechanism is common in your conculture)
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Re: Lexicon Building

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din wrote:
next: doorknob (or handle, or whatever mechanism is common in your conculture)
I remember reading that the PIE people are believed to have used saloon-style doors that you pushed open and did not reach the ceiling or floor. Among the evidence is that the word for door shows up as a plural in many early IE languages, and even to this day in modern Icelandic it still is.

Ive borrowed this trait for my own cultures, so the word that best translates "door" in Poswa is a dual, puvapop. I imagine that they would still use the same word, or a related one, for the modern types of doors we are more familiar with in the West, perhaps with the dual marker removed. (The original morpheme puva probably derives from a preexisting morpheme with a meaning such as "connector".)

So now i just need a word for a stiff object that's about waist high and sticks out at a right-angle from an otherwise flat surface. There is a common morpheme -b(l)um "handheld object", but it would be improper to use that here since it functions much like a classifier and therefore the implication would be that the door itself is a handheld object. I may be better off going with a verbal formation, such as "that by which (I) push a door", avoiding using the word for "open" since that would be more likely to mean a key. A good word for pushing is bužo, and like other words beginning with b- it undergoes syncope when added to a word ending in a vowel. Since the dual marker on puvapop is not necessary here, the resulting compound word will have only three syllables. The final morpheme in the word is the instrumental suffix -m, producing as a final result the word

Puvužom.
Doorknob.

If Pabappa were to do the same process with the same morphemes the resulting word would be
Puduwom.
Doorknob.

An alternative would be to simply loan the Poswa word, which would likely produce pubudom, which actually sounds more native than the actual native word does (the sequence /uwV/ is not common in Pabappa, but appears often in loans).

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anthem, theme song
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Re: Lexicon Building

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Tormiott (Rockall):

miulanta starade ˈmʏɥlɪnta ˈstaɾɪðə (n) national anthem {lit. national song, national composition}
- miulanta ˈmʏɥlɪnta (n) music; piece of music, composition, song
- - miul- (pref) ɡood, positive, beautiful; correct, right
- - anta ˈɛnta (n) sound, noise (one single...); tone
- starade ˈstaɾɪðə (n) country, state, nation; nationality
- - star- (pref) pertaining to land; being solid; the country of..., the land of...
- - ade ˈɛðə (n) (n) people in general, mankind; a group of people; crowd (homogeneous)

_____________

next: nest
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Re: Lexicon Building

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din wrote:next: nest
O Kanã:

‘ikao [ʔi↓kaʊ̯] "to nest/raise a child"
‘okikao [ʔoki↓kaʊ̯] "parent" (plus antipassive infix)
tri‘ikao [ʈʳiʔi↓kaʊ̯] "nesting site" (plus applicative)

Next: trench, furrow.
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Re: Lexicon Building

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Frislander wrote:Next: trench, furrow.
Tautisca:
fommun "ditch, trench" (Verbal noun of fomman "to dig" < PIE *bhedh-)
solcus "furrow" < PIE *selk-

Next: to take, seize

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Re: Lexicon Building

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Tormiott (Rockall):

iadan ˈjɛðɪn (v) to seize, to take something from someone
- ia- (pref) by force or inevitably; powered by a machine or engine
- dan (v) to take (changing possession); take in one's hands

____________

next: light bulb
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Re: Lexicon Building

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din wrote:Tormiott (Rockall):

iadan ˈjɛðɪn (v) to seize, to take something from someone
- ia- (pref) by force or inevitably; powered by a machine or engine
- dan (v) to take (changing possession); take in one's hands

____________

next: light bulb
What's a bulb? An onion upside down.

I'm not being particularly imaginative here, since the English word followed exactly the same sense evolution, but I don't see any alternative that would make sense to a culture that often describes things by shape and does not have electricity natively.

Right now the Poswa word listed for onion is luvumpwup, which means roughly "makes (me) cry when (i) peel it". That's cute but lately I've thought about replacing words like this with inherited ones from the protolanguage, even when they are highly polysemic. In this case there is an inherited word ny which also means onion and nothing else. This could mix with the inherited word uva "thumb, finger" to form a new word specifically for the bulb of an onion, and which could possibly supplant luvumpwup as the word for onion itself.

If I decide to go with this method, the word would likely have been formed at an early stage in the language, not in modern Poswa, since this is just the word for bulb, not the word for light bulb. Therefore instead of ny + uva I'd be looking at nə + ūa, which would yield nəura in the proto-language and thus nuva in modern Poswa. I will add an -s, I think, which in this context means "shaped like", even though I suspect most languages would simply use context to distinguish between a literal onion and something shaped like one.

Then I have to come up with a word for "light-giving". This will be much simpler, since there already is a word for lantern, in fact quite a few of them. I dont think of illumination as a recent innovation in my world, but perhaps the words for lantern ultimately derive long ago from words for fire or the sun. I have a choice between any of the following words, which for this purpose would be suited equally well: bwiš "lantern, lamp"; pfwupfwup "handheld light source"; puvwas "lamp, lantern"; and tša "light source, heat source".

I think I will choose puvwas, as I've always thought of it as being for floor lamps more so than the other words, and it is used as a symbolic word to describe blonde people, since blonde people also "shine" at about the same height as a floor lamp. So a light bulb is a blonde onion. Note, though, that the order of words is reversed, since this word is for a bulb, and not for something that has a bulb. Thus the word for light bulb is

Poswa:
puvwanuvas

Showing loss of -s before a nasal.

In Pabappa the short word for onion would have died out early enough that it would not be likely for it to survive even compounded with a word for thumb. Their word for onion is wapup, which literally means "makes (me) rain" and is derived from the same word as Poswa's luvumpwup, and was once used as the verb for crying. I think that I will add the -s here as well, particularly since this word is more strongly tied to the meaning "onion" rather than the shape.

For "lamp" I have a choice between wunipa and peppi, both of which are cognates to Poswa words above. Peppi is mostly found in the compound form peppiplum "lantern, handheld lamp", which might make it inappropriate for this context. But on the other hand, it has the advantage of seeing greater use in the lexicon, and therefore being a more productive word. I think therefore that I will choose peppi, and the resulting word for lightbulb will be

Pabappa:
peppi wapupus

Which looks like it means "lamp of bulb" because the "shape of" morpheme collides with the genitive. But as in Poswa, people are familiar with both morphemes and will know from context which is intended.


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camp, resting place
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Re: Lexicon Building

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I'm not being particularly imaginative here, since the English word followed exactly the same sense evolution, but I don't see any alternative that would make sense to a culture that often describes things by shape and does not have electricity natively.
What about describing it by what it does, e.g. “glowing thing”, “smoldering thing” or “embering thing”?

Also, instead of the onion, the shape could refer to e.g. a pear, a head, or, more generally, a ball.
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Re: Lexicon Building

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Pole, the wrote:
I'm not being particularly imaginative here, since the English word followed exactly the same sense evolution, but I don't see any alternative that would make sense to a culture that often describes things by shape and does not have electricity natively.
What about describing it by what it does, e.g. “glowing thing”, “smoldering thing” or “embering thing”?
Poswa and Pabappa would have a difficult time with words like this, since it would require a dummy morpheme of some sort to distinguish a word for "smoldering thing" from the word for fire itself. And I prefer to avoid dummy morphemes whenever possible. I will likely go with this strategy in other languages though, particularly those that preserve tones and therefore do not suffer from the "fire"/"be fiery" collision that happened early on in Poswa and Pabappa.
Pole, the wrote:Also, instead of the onion, the shape could refer to e.g. a pear, a head, or, more generally, a ball.
Hmm, I like the pear idea. Im not sure why I didnt think of that myself. The word for pear in Poswa is either bybop or bwop, which are cognates of each other and are used in free variation although bybop is more common when used in isolation since it doesn't collide with other words. The "shape of" variants of each word would be pypwos and pwos respectively, exhibiting a sound rule that devoices /b/ when it comes into contact with /p/, even across a schwa vowel (y is highly allophonic but its basic value is /ə/~/ɨ/.) Poswa generally picks short morphemes when forming compounds, thus I could coin a word

puvwapwos

for light bulb, showing that the -s also disappears before /b/, even though the /b/ has been assimilated to /p/.

The word for pear in Pabappa is just "apple" plus a fossilized adjective, so Pabappa at least would probably still use the word for onion.
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Re: Lexicon Building

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Poswa and Pabappa would have a difficult time with words like this, since it would require a dummy morpheme of some sort to distinguish a word for "smoldering thing" from the word for fire itself. And I prefer to avoid dummy morphemes whenever possible. I will likely go with this strategy in other languages though, particularly those that preserve tones and therefore do not suffer from the "fire"/"be fiery" collision that happened early on in Poswa and Pabappa.
Well, I don't know if it counts as a dummy morpheme, but in Polish it works as a fossilized nominalized adjective, so something like „lampa żar-owa” (lamp ember-ish) → „żar-owa” (ember-ish) → „żar-ów-ka” (ember-ish-NOMZ). (The nominalizer might come from the feminine diminutive „-ka”, as „lampa” is itself feminine.)

But if your language doesn't distinguish between the noun and the adjective in this case (“fire” = “be fiery”) and between adjectives and nominalized adjectives in general (“be fiery” = “fiery thing”), then this might not work, right.
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Re: Lexicon Building

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Soap wrote:next:
camp, resting place
O Kanã:

sobe [so↓ⁿbe] "to sleep"
wie [wi̯e] "permanent"
wãbie [wãⁿbi̯e] "impermanent, temporary"
trisobewãbie [ʈʳiⁿso↓ⁿbewãⁿbi̯e] "(temporary) camp"

vs.

drei‘e [(ⁿ)ɖʳei̯↓ʔe] "to rest, relax"
tridrei‘e [ʈʳiⁿɖʳei̯↓ʔe] "resting place"

Next: to accompany, be with, help.
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Re: Lexicon Building

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Tormiott (Rockall):

sout sʊwt (v) to lead the way, to escort, to accompany; to lead (dance); to walk (a dog); to drive (a vehicle)

nînniangite ˈniːɲːɪˌnʕitə (v) to stay with; to go along with, walk along with, to go together with, to accompany (transitive; compare sout); to keep someone company; to stay together (intransitive)
+ nîn- (pref) straight ahead, onward, continuously, continuing, forward; incessantly, undeterred
+ nia- (pref) a single unit from something normally appearing in a collection; a piece of a larger whole; a part of something larger (also figurative); a bounded substance from a mass (e.g. water)
+ ngite ˈnʕitə (v) to sit, to be seated, to remain seated; {in momentane} to sit down

___________

next: french fry (or any other dish made from a deep fried tuber)
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Re: Lexicon Building

Post by Ċeaddawīc »

In my new language, Púkusa.

wupaqqú ˌwʊ.pɐqˈquː (N) dish of sweet tuber (ispáq) fried in animal fat with sweet spices

ispáq ɪsˈpæːq (N) type of sweet tuber
  • reduced form: -paq -pɐq


:> next: fang, canines, eye-tooth
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Re: Lexicon Building

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Ċeaddawīc wrote: next: fang, canines, eye-tooth
Poswa:

bempypa, an old compound of bem "together, working as one" + pypa "canine tooth". Nevertheless, this functions as a singular, and one must use a derived form such as bempypapop or bempypabum to indicate the canine teeth as a whole, except in certain constructions where the verb automatically implies the plural (e.g. in English "to bite with the canine" generally would not be interpreted as a bite force from just a single tooth, and Poswa has many analogous constructions involving verbs).

pappo if referring to an animal that only has teeth like this, as opposed to a heterodont animal such as a dog or a human that has canine teeth alongside other teeth. This noun is actually related to the word for cheeks because a bite from an animal like this relies as much on strong cheek muscles as it does on sharp teeth. (Apparently, many fish have very sharp teeth, but weak bites, because "sharp" is apparently simply the original shape of teeth in all vertebrates and these fish retained that shape even though they dont use them to bite their prey but rather to grip it in the mouth before quickly swallowing the prey whole.)

bavwavwep if referring specifically to the fangs of a venomous animal. This is related to a word for slime, bavwo, and a verb meaning "to hold inside" which no longer occurs in bare form (it would be *wep if it did). However, pappo is more common than bavwavwep even in this specific sense of the word.

Pabappa:
papiba wiwi "fang, especially one that carries venom". From papiba "sharp (thing)" and wiwi "tooth". Taken literally, papiba wiwi could also mean "sweet tooth" since the word for a sharp object and the word for sweet foods are the same: papiba. I have not decided whether to "fix" this or let it stay. Lately I've been on a binge of taking coincidences like this and making them simply the same word, perhaps because I find semantic shifts to be more interesting than sound changes for the most part. I would rather have a word that means both "candy" and "weapon" than two words that just happened to collide from very different starting points.

piuba "sharp tooth" (in general). This can refer to any sharp tooth of any animal.

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horn, trumpet
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