Help your conlang fluency (2)

[Bristel]

Es Ríx Díví Lugh, nev Toran. Credhíeith acomtá aloil Carnone.
[es rʲiːks dʲiːvʲiː luɣ nev toran | kreðʲiːeðʲ acomtaː alolʲ karnone]
The King of Gods is Lugus, or Taranis. Others might believe in Cernunnos.

[King or Queen of the Gods may be subjective, Ercunic speakers have lots of gods, and like the Gaulach (Gauls) next door, and Gédhelcach (Gaels) and Combroigh (Welsh), their cults may have different chief gods. Some horsemen give tribute to Echóna, the horse goddess]

--I also think you'd be hard-pressed to pin down which of the Celtic gods are chief among them all.

[HazelFiver]

Waklethir ûziatłëp ûziatłëp aris fîr ev sa ûz iatł.
Bicycles are called bicycles because they have two wheels.

[din]

Waklethir ûziatłëp ûziatłëp aris fîr ev sa ûz iatł.
Bicycles are called bicycles because they have two wheels.

Rittana ‹ houmecce › na, solono coppa ngiten o na odair ngiten o mecce, solo hour
ˈɾitːɪna ˈhoʊməkːə na | ˈsolənʊ ˈkopːa ˈnʕitən ʊ na ˈoðɛaɹ ˈnʕitən ʊ ˈməkːə | ˈsolʊ huːɹ
call-AOR.1p bicycle 3s, because IMPERS sit-AOR.3p on 3s like sit-3p horse, but roll-AOR.3s
We call it a 'rolling horse' because you sit on it like you sit on a horse, but it rolls.

[hwhatting]

Wit riraid par tan luddan epé sam nainu nómunu.
PRTC ride-RES.NONACT.1SG through ART-F.SG.ACC desert-SG.ACC horse-SG.LOC with no-N.SG.INSTR name-SG.INSTR
I've been through the desert on a horse with no name.

[jal]

Ohs af no nem? De desat? Wo fo?
A horse without a name? In the desert? Why?


JAL

[Znex]

Иг нє нєнда. И да сати воулıи мана є вофидо?
I don't know. Is it what people do in deserts?

[HazelFiver]

Gu laulin bafîr los.
gu* song EXP-be-IMPERS DIST1-PROX
That's a song .

Ne šubafîr mi evleik šifo kmažot es pa kaval.
NEG1 EPIS-EXP-be-IMPERS 1s ever after ride-INF** on INDEF*** horse
I don't think I've ever ridden a horse.

*I have no idea what you call this particle... it's a long story involving set theory.
**The -ot ending is used with nominative subjects as part of the active-stative marking, and it's not exactly an infinitive -- I call it a "verbnoun", as it behaves similarly to the Celtic structure of the same name. I don't know how to convey all that in the gloss.
***This is an "abstract" or "nonspecific" article, not indefinite. I don't know how to gloss that either.

(Sorry about the asterisks. This is turning out to be a difficult language to gloss. Maybe I shouldn't bother.)

[hwhatting]

Gu laulin bafîr los.
gu* song EXP-be-IMPERS DIST1-PROX
That's a song .

Tóci, ta worra es tommo communo santis.
yes, ART-N.PL.NOM word-NOM.PL out-of DEM-N.SG.ABL song-SG.ABL be-PRES.ACT.3PL
Yes, the words are from that song.

**The -ot ending is used with nominative subjects as part of the active-stative marking, and it's not exactly an infinitive -- I call it a "verbnoun", as it behaves similarly to the Celtic structure of the same name. I don't know how to convey all that in the gloss.

Verbnoun is a perfectly good name for that.

***This is an "abstract" or "nonspecific" article, not indefinite. I don't know how to gloss that either.

NONSPEC?

(Sorry about the asterisks. This is turning out to be a difficult language to gloss. Maybe I shouldn't bother.)

Glossing it makes it easier to understand how your language works, so please continue doing it.

Some of your lexemes look Indo-European. Is it an a posteriori IE lang or are you just using material from existing languages (I also noticed kaval).

[Imralu]

You can gloss non-specific as NSPEC. You can basically freely add N (meaning not or non) to other gloss items where it doesn't cause confusion. For example, it might cause a bit of confusion if you have a non-first person glossed as N1 without explanation, but NPST is clearly non-past and NSPEC is pretty clear too. You could probably even use NSPC if you're going to use it a lot.

And the "verbnoun" is a Gerund, no? (glossed GER)

[HazelFiver]

*I have no idea what you call this particle... it's a long story involving set theory.

Never mind -- it's actually sort of an essive, except when it's partitive. I'll just call it ESS/PTV or something.

Glossing it makes it easier to understand how your language works, so please continue doing it.

Some of your lexemes look Indo-European. Is it an a posteriori IE lang or are you just using material from existing languages (I also noticed kaval).

The latter. I originally took most of the words from French and Welsh, with a few coming from other languages (e.g. Estonian laulma "to sing"), but now all new words are a priori and I'm planning to replace a good deal of the old vocabulary.

NONSPEC?

You can gloss non-specific as NSPEC. You can basically freely add N (meaning not or non) to other gloss items where it doesn't cause confusion. For example, it might cause a bit of confusion if you have a non-first person glossed as N1 without explanation, but NPST is clearly non-past and NSPEC is pretty clear too. You could probably even use NSPC if you're going to use it a lot.

That sounds good, but Wikipedia says SPEC means a specifier, so now I'm confused.

And the "verbnoun" is a Gerund, no? (glossed GER)

I'm not sure. It also functions as an infinitive, and there may or may not be a whole other gerund that is better described as such. This language is really half-baked. Grammar is hard. (For me, anyway -- I'm considerably less experienced than the other members of this forum.)

Asgon enfoswedwinur pibafîr var nałêsfôn so baswerethim pa raiga gus dełaot pa šoza se.
enough NEG1-PFV-CAUS-end-INF/GER EPIS-EXP-be-IMPERS ART* Sparrowgrass REL EXP-make-HAB-1s NSPEC word-PL in.order be.able-say-INF/GER NSPEC thing-PL here
Sparrowgrass is so unfinished that I make up words to be able to say things here.

*This is for unique things such as proper nouns. Isn't there something like that in Lojban? I just called it an "article" this time because I have no idea.

[jal]

Di Laypcik glos rul de ya, im af lis af stan glos abribiyecon. Olso, Wikipedia af long lis (olbit non a dem af abribiyecon fo "spasifik").
The Leipzig glossing rules are here, it has a list of standard glossing abbreviations. Furthermore, Wikipedia has an extensive list (though none of them have an abbreviation for "specific").

it's actually sort of an essive, except when it's partitive. I'll just call it ESS/PTV or something.

Yu les kol im "ESS" wen im ron fi esif, an kol im "PTV" wen im ron fi pahtatif.
You should call it "ESS" if it functionas as essive, and "PTV" when it functions as partative.

That sounds good, but Wikipedia says SPEC means a specifier, so now I'm confused.

Wen fo yu langwic in af specifaya, an yu difayn "SPEC" fi "spasifik", it in no pwoblam.
If your language doesn't have specifiers, and you define "SPEC" as "spasifik", there's no problem.

This is for unique things such as proper nouns. Isn't there something like that in Lojban? I just called it an "article" this time because I have no idea.

Sajiwan swel af dis ya ahtikl. Mi tem fi kol it "wan wan ahtikl", abrebiyecon "UNQ".
Sajiwan also has such an article. I'm tempted to call it "unique article", abbreviated "UNQ".


JAL

[Imralu]

I'm not sure. It also functions as an infinitive, and there may or may not be a whole other gerund that is better described as such.

I've never had a conlang that's distinguished them. Swahili doesn't distinguish them. German gerunds are just the infinitive with an article and capitalisation. How languages distinguish these categories, if they do at all, is specific to the language. Finnish has several different non-finite nouny verby things.

[din]

Asgon enfoswedwinur pibafîr var nałêsfôn so baswerethim pa raiga gus dełaot pa šoza se.
Sparrowgrass is so unfinished that I make up words to be able to say things here.

O ir rhiânott podera rasin î cin miullist, ni o adam sauthatt, o nît scana cuacairatt coppa, idian sioton se arîttaion mie o ia.
/ʊ iɹ ˈɹjɛanət ˈpoðəɾa ˈɾɛsɪn ɪj kin ˈmʏwlːɪst | ni ʊ ˈɛðam ˈsoʊθɪt | ʊ nɪjt ˈskɛna ˈkwakɛaɾɪt ˈkopːa | ˈidʑɪn ˈɕotən sə ˈaɾɪjtˌtɛjən mjə ʊ ja/
ADV already work.on<PERF>-1s seven year-PL this here language, and ADV still find.1s, ADV always when write-1s something, concept-PL be.simple-3p NEG to.name<PERF>-3p REFL by 1s.OBL
I've been working on this language for seven years, and I still come across basic concepts that I don't have a word for almost every time I try to write something...

(or more literally: I have worked on this language for seven years, and I still find, every time I write something, concepts which are simple and not named by me. All adjectives and relative clauses are actually just regular verbal phrases)

This was a great example... It took a while to put together

[Travis B.]

qʰæj-æ ˈkʰuːtʰɒwæwwæ zæ ˈsɒːχɾæʔæ zæ jɒɾqʰu-nu ʁæːʔætʰwæ
This is the first thing that I have said in this language.

[HazelFiver]

Asgon enfoswedwinur pibafîr var nałêsfôn so baswerethim pa raiga gus dełaot pa šoza se.
Sparrowgrass is so unfinished that I make up words to be able to say things here.

O ir rhiânott podera rasin î cin miullist, ni o adam sauthatt, o nît scana cuacairatt coppa, idian sioton se arîttaion mie o ia.
/ʊ iɹ ˈɹjɛanət ˈpoðəɾa ˈɾɛsɪn ɪj kin ˈmʏwlːɪst | ni ʊ ˈɛðam ˈsoʊθɪt | ʊ nɪjt ˈskɛna ˈkwakɛaɾɪt ˈkopːa | ˈidʑɪn ˈɕotən sə ˈaɾɪjtˌtɛjən mjə ʊ ja/
ADV already work.on<PERF>-1s seven year-PL this here language, and ADV still find.1s, ADV always when write-1s something, concept-PL be.simple-3p NEG to.name<PERF>-3p REFL by 1s.OBL
I've been working on this language for seven years, and I still come across basic concepts that I don't have a word for almost every time I try to write something...

Gu enfail pibafîr sgutlot za pa hepna. To palvel fsuleik baswedwinër la.
/gu ɛnfaɪl pɪbafiːr skʊtlɔt za pa hɛpna ‖ to palvɛl fsʊlɛɪk baswɛdwɪnər la/
ESS difficult EPIS-EXP-be-IMPERS build-INF.NOM GEN NSPEC language. NEG2 almost always EXP-finish-IMPERS.NOM 3pl.OBV.
It's hard to build a language. They're almost never finished.

Now you know that the orthography is totally straightforward and boring. That's how I like it.

[masako]

It's hard to build a language. They're almost never finished.

아막 가라먀고 오부
amak kalamyako opua
/amaːk kalamʲaːko oːpʷa/
never language-CUAS-AG finish
A conlanger’s work is never done! (lit: Language makers never finish!)

[jal]

Fo ray. Oba it me langwic ya a nof don, an yu in won finis im op.
Indeed. But it could be the language is finished enough, and you don't need to finish it completely.


JAL

[din]

Fo ray. Oba it me langwic ya a nof don, an yu in won finis im op.
Indeed. But it could be the language is finished enough, and you don't need to finish it completely.

In Tormiott (Rockall):

No solo gisner mie no chadenen gascada. Sauthiadatt no oicourir asintoto: Coppa o tourra ni tiautourra nînecen, ni senît siemoinon.
/no ˈsolʊ ˈʕisnəɹ mjə no ˈxɛðənən ʕɛskɪða | ˈsoʊθjɪðɪt no ˈʊjkuwɾɪɹ ˈɛsɪnˌtotʊ | ˈkopːa ʊ ˈtuwrːa ni ˈtɕoʊtuwrːa ˈnɪjnəkən | ni ˈsənɪjt ˈɕəmʊjnən/
that however suppose-3s REFL COMPL give-3p end.point. think<IPFV>.1s COMPL AUG-be.like-3s asymptote. IMPER ADV rare and AUG-rare make.progress.3p, and never be.finished-3p.
But that implies there is an end. I believe it's more like an asymptote: You progress less and less, and you'll never complete it.

[jal]

But that implies there is an end. I believe it's more like an asymptote: You progress less and less, and you'll never complete it.

Yu a ray, bot yu pica langwic im nacural don (f.s. kos im a mekop istari fayn-don a los sibilasecon). Oba dis swel a ray bo lif langwic, bot yu ray don olda tok dem tok fo eba.
Unless you describe a language that by nature is final (e.g. because it's the con-historical findings of a lost civilisation), you are right. However, that also goes for living languages, unless you describe every utterance ever uttered.


JAL

[Travis B.]

gæje-zɐ lækʰɐɾ-do-no de-lo zæjɐtʰ
Old Laqar looks like this.

[Travis B.]

Proto-Laqar: jæːtsʰutʰi-zæ sɒːχutʰi-zæ læːhimlædu-nu luːjjætʰɒwɾɒː
Old Laqar: jætsʰtʰe-zɐ sɔxtʰe-zɐ læhimlɐdo-no lyjjɐtʰoɾɔ
The only languages that are finished are dead.

[Travis B.]

duz zejtsʰeɾe-hɐ lɐxebinlæ
I like how this (language) looks.

[Nortaneous]

Niežai kapsiem ččam burai mä vësu.
I never particularly like the appearance of my conlangs.

[hwhatting]

I never particularly like the appearance of my conlangs.

Pimmo es tócas dechar?
INT-N.SG.ABL 3PERS-F.PL.ACC such-F.PL.ACC make-PRES.ACT.2Sg
Why do you make them that way?

EDIT: corrected typo

[din]

I never particularly like the appearance of my conlangs.

Pommo es tócas dechar?
INT-N.SG.ABL 3PERS-F.PL.ACC such-F.PL.ACC make-PRES.ACT.2Sg
Why do you make them that way?

(in Tormiott):

Au miccinêioi i iogopenen, coppa sah torappuisin porh saurhîmin na na me odairar.
/oʊ ˈmikːɪˌnəːjʊj i ˈjoʕowən | ˈkopːa sah ˈtoɾapˌpwisɪn poɹ ˈsoʊɾɪjmɪn na na mə ˈoðɛaɾaɹ/
before put.together<PERF>-2s CLAS part-PL, IMP often be.unclear-3p for imagine.3p what 3s FUT resemble-3s
Before putting together the pieces, it's sometimes hard to know what it will be like.