Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlearn
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
I just noticed something funny. Pronouncing "acknowlegement" to myself, I realized that by default, I pretty much pronounce the first syllable with /g/. It might not be exactly identical with /g/, but the start of how I pronounce "acknowledgement" definitely feels a lot closer to the start of how I pronounce "ignore" than the start of how I pronounce "acne". Obviously, the consonant would be expected to be lenited a bit due to being in the coda of an unstressed syllable, but it doesn't feel like an unaspirated voiceless /k/, it feels like a /g/. I can't find any dictionaries that mention /g/ as a possibility--does this sound at all familiar to anyone here?
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
I spotted someone wearing a Titleist cap yesterday and it reminded me that when I first saw this I thought it was derived from a German-American surname pronounced /ˈtit.laist/.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
I thought German had s > ʃ before a plosive. Have I been mispronouncing Ulisses Spiele?linguoboy wrote:I spotted someone wearing a Titleist cap yesterday and it reminded me that when I first saw this I thought it was derived from a German-American surname pronounced /ˈtit.laist/.
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
In Standard German, only in morpheme-initial position. Using [ʃ] in other positions is a dialectal feature characteristic of Southwest Germany and Switzerland (i.e. the Alemannic-speaking area)[*].Zaarin wrote:I thought German had s > ʃ before a plosive. Have I been mispronouncing Ulisses Spiele?linguoboy wrote:I spotted someone wearing a Titleist cap yesterday and it reminded me that when I first saw this I thought it was derived from a German-American surname pronounced /ˈtit.laist/.
So it is [ʃ]piel (and Glocken[ʃ]piel), but Leberwurst and Zeitgeist contain [s].
[*]Even within Alemannic, palatalisation fails to occur across morpheme boundaries. So isch "is" contrasts with isst "eats", whereas these are homophones in StG.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
No. The <S> in Spiele is indeed [ʃ].Zaarin wrote:I thought German had s > ʃ before a plosive. Have I been mispronouncing Ulisses Spiele?linguoboy wrote:I spotted someone wearing a Titleist cap yesterday and it reminded me that when I first saw this I thought it was derived from a German-American surname pronounced /ˈtit.laist/.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
I don't know much about Alemannic, but AFAIK the reason is not the morpheme boundary, but the historical origin of what fell together in /VsC/ in Standard German - where /s/ goes back to Germanic /s/, it shows up as /S/ before stops in the South-Western German dialects, while where it goes back to Germanic /t/ like in the conjugation of essen (cf. Engl. eat), it shows up as /s/. For /s/ from old /t/, a position before stop would be possible only before a (historical) morpheme boundary, due to the phonology of Germanic, but the rule shouldn't hold for historical /s/. Easy to check - what would be the Alemannic forms of Standard German liest "reads" or reist "travels"?linguoboy wrote:Even within Alemannic, palatalisation fails to occur across morpheme boundaries. So isch "is" contrasts with isst "eats", whereas these are homophones in StG.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Ah, that makes sense.
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
I was surprised that Gestapo doesn't have /ʃ/
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
It can, apparently.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Not so easy, as it turns out. After an hour of fruitless searching online to confirm the conjugation of these verbs (since I don't know trust my own spotty knowledge of Alemannic) I finally gave up and asked a native-speaker of Swabian. He had this to say:hwhatting wrote:Easy to check - what would be the Alemannic forms of Standard German liest "reads" or reist "travels"?
I däd "läst" mit ma langa "ä" saga, abber s gibt sicher au Leit, wo no en Omlaut hen: "i lies, du liesch, där/die/des liest, mir/ihr/die läset".
Laut Duden: [ɡeˈstaːpo], auch: [ɡəˈʃtaːpo].Vijay wrote:It can, apparently.finlay wrote:I was surprised that Gestapo doesn't have /ʃ/
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Ok, looks like the morpheme boundary rule works, at least synchronically for transparent morpheme boundaries (after all, the /S/ in isch "ist" must go back to an older form *iSt, where there also is a morpheme boundary between historical /s/ and the stop.linguoboy wrote:Not so easy, as it turns out. After an hour of fruitless searching online to confirm the conjugation of these verbs (since I don't know trust my own spotty knowledge of Alemannic) I finally gave up and asked a native-speaker of Swabian. He had this to say:hwhatting wrote:Easy to check - what would be the Alemannic forms of Standard German liest "reads" or reist "travels"?I däd "läst" mit ma langa "ä" saga, abber s gibt sicher au Leit, wo no en Omlaut hen: "i lies, du liesch, där/die/des liest, mir/ihr/die läset".
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Similarly, Samschdig, historically sambaz + tac, where the Sams- is a cranberry morpheme. But Geburtstag has [s].hwhatting wrote:Ok, looks like the morpheme boundary rule works, at least synchronically for transparent morpheme boundaries (after all, the /S/ in isch "ist" must go back to an older form *iSt, where there also is a morpheme boundary between historical /s/ and the stop.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
I just learned that "caveat" isn't pronounced [kəˈviːt].
JAL
JAL
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Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
It wasn't until about four years ago that I finally learned "category" is not pronounced */kəˈtɛgəɹi/ but /ˈkætəgɔɹi/.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Reminds me that as a kid I pronounced albeit [ɑɫˈbaɪ̯t̚].jal wrote:I just learned that "caveat" isn't pronounced [kəˈviːt].
JAL
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Me too, since I had assumed it was a German loanword. I never used it out loud, though, only in academic writing. I dont think I ever heard it used aloud either until I was well into adulthood.Zaarin wrote:Reminds me that as a kid I pronounced albeit [ɑɫˈbaɪ̯t̚].jal wrote:I just learned that "caveat" isn't pronounced [kəˈviːt].
JAL
Im surprised caveat seemingly isnt used in other languages, since it's taken from a famous Latin phrase.
Sunàqʷa the Sea Lamprey says:
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
I used to think that "bow", as in "bow down", is pronounced something like "boh".
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
For ages, I thought that English people had /roːz/, not /rauz/. I still have to correct my mental pronunciation sometimes.Raphael wrote:I used to think that "bow", as in "bow down", is pronounced something like "boh".
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Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
wait what
They don't have /ro:z/??
I... I need to lie down.
They don't have /ro:z/??
I... I need to lie down.
I generally forget to say, so if it's relevant and I don't mention it--I'm from Southern Michigan and speak Inland North American English. Yes, I have the Northern Cities Vowel Shift; no, I don't have the cot-caught merger; and it is called pop.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
I do (and did) use albeit in speech, but I also use nota bene in speech, so... :pSoap wrote:Me too, since I had assumed it was a German loanword. I never used it out loud, though, only in academic writing. I dont think I ever heard it used aloud either until I was well into adulthood.Zaarin wrote:Reminds me that as a kid I pronounced albeit [ɑɫˈbaɪ̯t̚].jal wrote:I just learned that "caveat" isn't pronounced [kəˈviːt].
JAL
Im surprised caveat seemingly isnt used in other languages, since it's taken from a famous Latin phrase.
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
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Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
For what word? "Row" as in "argument"?linguoboy wrote:For ages, I thought that English people had /roːz/, not /rauz/. I still have to correct my mental pronunciation sometimes.Raphael wrote:I used to think that "bow", as in "bow down", is pronounced something like "boh".
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
Is there another kind of "row" you people can "have"?KathTheDragon wrote:For what word? "Row" as in "argument"?linguoboy wrote:For ages, I thought that English people had /roːz/, not /rauz/. I still have to correct my mental pronunciation sometimes.Raphael wrote:I used to think that "bow", as in "bow down", is pronounced something like "boh".
I mean maybe you could "have a little row on the Thames". But I didn't think anyone wanted to sound that ridiculously posh any more.
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
A row of, non-specific, items?
The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.
If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
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Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
It wasn't at all clear to me whether you were using the phrase "have a row" or talking about having a word /rau/ instead of /rəʊ/
Re: Incorrect pronunciations you have (or have had) to unlea
chitin (just heard a friend get this wrong recently)