[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 379: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4752: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4754: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4755: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4756: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
zompist bboard • View topic - climate change

zompist bboard

THIS IS AN ARCHIVE ONLY - see Ephemera
It is currently Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:02 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: climate change
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:08 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm
Posts: 409
We should prevent global warming. But the simple fact of the matter is that we will never do it. The only way to force humanity to comply with reality is to brutally wrest power away from the factions with corporate backing by means of policies that would arguably be genocidal in character. The only alternative to genocide is allowing global warming to continue. There are those who would argue for the genocidal path. My eternal hate goes out to their targets, but I am nevertheless not in the genocide camp. Therefore, I should assume that sea levels will rise and submerge low-lying regions like in Vanuatu. Given that this outcome is unavoidable in the future, should we be planning for the relocation of the inhabitants of these areas?

_________________
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Venting thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:59 pm 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:45 pm
Posts: 2373
Location: Santiago de Chile
other than the question de rigor, who's 'we',I think that succinctly put yes. Furthermore, the authorities in those countries are already buying land in nearby continents, and should continue to do it and probably do it even more.

_________________
-


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Venting thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:30 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm
Posts: 409

_________________
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Venting thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:11 pm 
Sanno
Sanno
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Posts: 3197
Location: One of the dark places of the world
Fortunately, climate change is a fairly minor problem on the large scale, and one we'll have solved long before any serious issues emerge.

Sea level rises are a very minor issue, for the simple reason that such rises - a couple of metres - are tiny, and slow. There are a number of major population centres that will need additional flood protections, but we're really good at that (c.f. the Netherlands). Less populated coastlines won't be able to afford all those protections, but since they're less populated they'll just move a few hundred metres inland over the course of the century. Likewise, some hardly-populated islands will be submerged, but they're hardly populated. The populations we're talking about would be absorbed into the cities in the blink of an eye.
[predicted coastline changes are actually far smaller than we've experienced in much of the world already in the last centuries. In England, for instance, literally miles of land have been lost on the east coast, and literally miles of land have been added elsewhere - there's a town near me that became a coastal port town 500 years ago, and now is15 miles inland again. People adapt.]

Changes to soil fertility will be a bigger problem in the short term, in certain areas. It will undoubtedly exacerbate hardship in some places, until populations shift to compensate. On the other hand, the stress will be an order of magnitude less than has been suffered in much of Africa and India in the last half-century due to rapid population increases.

And even then, the worst effects only occur if you assume the worst possible course of future energy use for the next 500 years - and so far we're doing significantly better than that. True, we'll miss the targets to avoid "irreversible change"; but we should bear in mind that irreversible change is a constant in life, at the large scale. And if we assume that doomsday scenario, new opportunities will also open up (if you think this is likely, go buy up land in Alaska!).

Now, sure, global warming IS a problem and we SHOULD continue to do something about it. It will cost a lot of money, and prevention would be cheaper than cure. But we also shouldn't get histrionic about it as though it were some sort of civilisation-threatening crisis.

----

meanwhile, there can be no 'algorithmic' solution to moral quandaries. First, because there is no consensus on ethical questions in general. But more particularly, because any consequentialist approach to solving moral problems has to treat population as uncontrollable, which renders results suboptimal (what if controlling population were good?) and potentially irrelevent (what if population changes unpredictedly?).
[population has to be taken out of the equation, because population levels in consequentialism are the equivalent of dividing by zero. You have to arbitrarily set a baseline "value of human life", and if that's zero or negative then all problems are solved by reducing the population to zero (or in some setups the minimum sustainable population of a few hundred people, depending what values you've set), but if it's greater than zero than all problems are solved, in the longterm, by force-breeding humans to convert as much of the universe's matter into humans as possible. Both solutions are counterintuitive, particularly when they result from seemingly arbitrary differences in set-up]

[actually, more technically, it's about how you define utility and disutility. If you consider utility additively, you end up human-rabbiting (the value of a life is always greater than zero). If you define utility subtractively (start at zero and subtract suffering) you end up exterminating all human (the value of a life is always less than zero). To not yield infinite breeding or infinite extermination, you need to precisely balance the values of every possible bad thing with every possible good thing so that the average life in every feasible scenario always equals exactly zero - and not only is that not practically possible, but you still end up with an algorithm that wants to exterminate 50% of the human race all the time. This is considered a Problem by most consequentialists, but fortunately so far a theoretical one (they can use consequentialism in the short term the way we use newtonian equations in day-to-day situations at low velocities).]

This doesn't get into the broader problem that the sort of AINazism you suggest is both silly and deplorable. [Implementing AINazism would be just as difficult as implementing NAINazism, except you'd have to build your own Hitler first, imbedded with all the values real Hitler would have to have, which you'd have to decide yourself first. You may as well just go ask Hitler.]

_________________
Blog:

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Venting thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:52 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm
Posts: 409

_________________
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Venting thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:30 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 4:43 pm
Posts: 707
Location: Three of them


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Venting thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:59 pm 
Boardlord
Boardlord

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 3377
Location: In the den


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Venting thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:16 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm
Posts: 409
I wanted to compare them to Palestinian refugees, but Sal's source apparently says the number of refugees will be very small, so he should still bear in mind that the inhabitants of the Sunderbans are more often Hindus than the rest of the population in an increasingly Islamist country:



Some studies have even indicated that rises in temperature will increase civil unrest globally. IIRC the Wikipedia article linked to it the last I checked. In this situation, anyone who encourages international Islamism in any shape or form, whether moderate or otherwise, has no moral high ground to stand on.

As for sea level rises, check this out: http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... ctica.html

_________________
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates


Last edited by rotting bones on Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Venting thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:37 am 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:44 am
Posts: 1998
Location: suburbs of Mrin
And in Oceania, some countries are at risk of being entirely submerged by the end of the century or even in a few decades. This includes areas where the population maintains hunter-gatherer lifestyles and reject modern technology, so they will have to completely abandon their culture where ever they are relocated, assuming they'l be relocated in the first place. In one of the most likely refuge countries, New Zealand, a court has set a precedent for denying refugee status to climate change refugees.

BTW, I feel like this climate stuff should be in a different thread.

_________________
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: climate change
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:54 am 
Boardlord
Boardlord

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 3377
Location: In the den
Moved. And rotting, please don't use the venting thread for stuff like this; it just creates extra work for the mods. Nothing wrong with starting threads.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Venting thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:05 pm 
Smeric
Smeric

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:25 pm
Posts: 2261
Location: Austin, TX, USA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Venting thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:30 pm 
Sanno
Sanno
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Posts: 3197
Location: One of the dark places of the world

_________________
Blog:

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: climate change
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:25 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm
Posts: 409
Note that I intended this to be a vent about my perception of futility in fighting climate change, not a separate thread with an OP coldly discussing and rejecting genocide as a strategy.

Baseless ad hominems aside, doesn't that argument assume sea level rise would be a more or less uniform process? My understanding was that we should expect tides that never recede below increasingly higher levels. These jerky and increasingly rapid non-retreats would still come in seemingly small vertical increments, but then, the Sundarban mudflats are not characterized by particularly steep inclines either. Bangladesh has an economy that would be hugely affected by erratic climate as it relies on local agricultural output, and the place is known for harassing religious minorities even when they don't impose on others for much. What am I missing?

Not that I'm waiting for a comprehensible response. From Sal, I've come to expect nothing less than an almost fascist hostility towards rational argument. I'll be getting more Nietzschean "alternative truths" if I'm lucky. Can't wait to find out whose babies I've been munching on this week.

PS. The West should care about this more because they are responsible for causing this catastrophe. I can hear the alt right already.

An alt right murderer: I'll stop murdering you if you stop murdering me.

Victim: But you're attacking me!

Murderer: That's just the kind of feminist double standard I'm defending civilization from with my blade! *stab*

_________________
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: climate change
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:50 am 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:44 am
Posts: 1998
Location: suburbs of Mrin
I think Sal is wrong about climate chane and his tone is definitely dispassionate, but calling him a fascist is uncalled for. For one thing, he has mentioned many times that his long, cold analysis is actually how he puts his passion into good use.

_________________
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: climate change
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:13 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm
Posts: 409

_________________
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: climate change
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:31 am 
Smeric
Smeric
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:44 am
Posts: 1998
Location: suburbs of Mrin
Sorry. I think you are right about Sal too. I was actually pretty angry at Sal for using that language. How about we start this conversation all over assuming everyone currently participating has the best intentions because we do have the best intentions.

_________________
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: climate change
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:55 am 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm
Posts: 409
Apology accepted. People have defended me from Sal many times on other subjects. Zompist has done it too. Sincere thanks to everyone who spoke up.

_________________
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Venting thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:58 pm 
Boardlord
Boardlord

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 3377
Location: In the den


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: climate change
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:03 pm 
Sanno
Sanno
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Posts: 3197
Location: One of the dark places of the world

_________________
Blog:

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: climate change
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:52 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm
Posts: 409

_________________
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Venting thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:42 pm 
Sanno
Sanno
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Posts: 3197
Location: One of the dark places of the world

_________________
Blog:

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: climate change
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:54 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm
Posts: 409
I don't think it is wrong to be dispassionate. I like computers because they are dispassionate. I just think it is not wrong to be passionate. I don't think refugees will cause civilization to collapse. I think every problem caused by climate change, taken together, might pose a serious threat to civilization, as many respected climate scientists have said, poseurs as they are. I doubt anyone thinks climate change is the first time there might be a refugee crisis in human history. I'm sure everyone thinks climate change will cause refugee problems to seriously increase, putting pressure on a civilization trying to cope with increased violence, issues with soil fertility, and all the rest. You know, common sense.

_________________
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: climate change
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:13 pm 
Sanno
Sanno
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Posts: 3197
Location: One of the dark places of the world

_________________
Blog:

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: climate change
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:01 pm 
Avisaru
Avisaru

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:25 pm
Posts: 409

_________________
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way. - Mark Twain

In reality, our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness, which indeed is a divine gift. - Socrates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Venting thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:26 pm 
Boardlord
Boardlord

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 8:26 pm
Posts: 3377
Location: In the den


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group