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zompist bboard • View topic - A sixth pronunciation for the letter "x".

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:19 pm 
Sanci
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Last edited by Fooge on Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:25 pm 
Smeric
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If one proper name is enough to count as a distinct pronunciation for the letter "x," then there are definitely more than six pronunciations for "x."


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:50 pm 
Avisaru
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That's an interesting one. Apparently the author, like me, has a perceptually salient allophone of /eɪ/ before tautosyllabic /l/, which is described as a "flat-A sound". I would write the sound for me as something like [eə]. I wonder from that wording if the author has merged it with some other phoneme. It seems possible that it might merge with /æ/ in some American English accents. There are apparently people who merge the vowel of "sale" with the vowel of "sell" (either in perception or in production, or maybe just in other people's perception).

In reality, it's not a problem that the "a" at the start of alexithymia "will be seen by many readers as representing a schwa", because that's an acceptable pronunciation of the Greek "alpha privative" negative prefix in this context in an English word. The Oxford English Dictionary gives the pronunciation as "Brit./əˌlɛksᵻˈθʌɪmɪə/, U.S. /əˌlɛksəˈθaɪmiə/". The pronunciation with /eɪ/ that the author describes seems kind of over-enunciated to me.

The really weird thing about the pronunciation of "alexithymia" is the use of /aɪ/ in the stressed syllable--it would be more regular if it were /ɪ/. The letters "i" and "y" are usually pronounced as "short i" when followed by "i" or "e" before another vowel letter--e.g. Scythia, -philia, chlamydia, Syria, myriad, empyrean.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:55 pm 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:02 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:08 pm 
Boardlord
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Kind of painful to read someone talking about pronunciation with apparently no understanding of allophony or phonetic environment. E.g. you can't have <ia> = [ajej] at the end of a word, and I'm pretty sure four of those x's are allophonic.

Mandarin x is not terribly obscure-- Xi'an, Xinjiang, Deng Xiaoping-- and I think English speakers who know the words would use "sh".


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:19 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:56 pm 
Sumerul
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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:09 am 
Boardlord
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I'm not going to say it's 100% predictable, mostly because I don't feel like doing a lot of research on it right now. :) But I suspect a few rules will handle most of the variation:

1. Unvoice the x finally, or before an unvoiced consonant (as spelled): box, exclaim, excite, expect
2. Use /kʃ/ /gʒ/ where you would find s > ʃ: anxious, sexual, luxury. Compare specious, consensual, assure.
3. Voice it just preceding the stress accent: exist, exact, exult, exhibit, example, exhort, executive
4. Unvoice the x elsewhere: exit, axis, exercise, sexual, axle, maxim, oxygen, exoplant, execute

These match my dialect at least.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:33 am 
Sumerul
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I have /gz/ in exit which cannot be predicted by your rules. But yes, the rest of those words follow those for me.

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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:17 am 
Smeric
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I also have /gz/ in exit. I think I also have it in execute. In general, I find this whole stress-shifting thing in English very confusing for my brain.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:11 pm 
Smeric
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I have /ks/ in exit but hearing it with /gz/ doesn't seem at all weird to me ... until a rare occasion when I saw Brexit mentioned in English and everyone seemed to be saying it with /gz/ and for some reason that sounds completely strange, like some kind of portmanteau of "Breakfast eggs ... it!" Maybe it's just that I'd only heard Brexit mentioned in German until then.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:44 pm 
Lebom
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There's also X as /ɨgz/ in "Xavier", at least in my midwestern U.S. accent.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:24 am 
Smeric
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That's just /z/ for me (but I believe your pronunciation may be common here, too. I'm sure I've heard/read of it before).


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:27 am 
Sumerul
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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:40 am 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:37 am 
Sanno
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:16 pm 
Sanno
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:22 pm 
Sanno
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My older brother planned to give his son the middle name "Xiq", pronounced /ˈziːk/.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:24 pm 
Boardlord
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:28 pm 
Sanno
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Blog:

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:42 pm 
Smeric
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Is /reIf/ still standard in the U.K.? I knew someone with that name, but he spelled it Rafe and I didn't think of it as a variant of Ralph at the time.

÷÷÷÷÷÷
I've done /Z/ for x, too.... picked it up in my early teen years and seem to have mentally stored it as the default foreign pronunc until I made a conlang with /x/ and /h/, necessitating using both in romanization.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:58 pm 
Sanno
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:43 pm 
Sumerul
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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:54 pm 
Smeric
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Of course not, the Brits are obviously going around saying "RRÉLF! RRÉLF!"


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