I would go for Irish because it is to my knowledge the most complete (in relation to all the elements of Old Irish and gaulish and proto goidelic and all those things). And because it has lenition and eclips abit everywhere, depending on your dialect.Turtlehead wrote:Celtic languages are meant to be the most grammatically different of the European languages that are in the indo-european family. Which celtic language would be the most difficult for an English speaker?linguoboy wrote:Dewrad and I have said it before: Your biggest single problem is carrying around the default assumption that Welsh works like English. Unless you've been explicitly instructed otherwise, you assume that the syntax will be exactly the same. As you can see, it's not a safe assumption.
Welsh lessons.
[b][color=red]Nokinen poika[/b][/color]
And don't forget the copula!Egein wrote:I would go for Irish because it is to my knowledge the most complete (in relation to all the elements of Old Irish and gaulish and proto goidelic and all those things). And because it has lenition and eclips abit everywhere, depending on your dialect.Turtlehead wrote:Celtic languages are meant to be the most grammatically different of the European languages that are in the indo-european family. Which celtic language would be the most difficult for an English speaker?linguoboy wrote:Dewrad and I have said it before: Your biggest single problem is carrying around the default assumption that Welsh works like English. Unless you've been explicitly instructed otherwise, you assume that the syntax will be exactly the same. As you can see, it's not a safe assumption.
I don't have any idea what you're saying here. What does Gaulish have to do with Insular Celtic?Egein wrote:I would go for Irish because it is to my knowledge the most complete (in relation to all the elements of Old Irish and gaulish and proto goidelic and all those things).Turtlehead wrote:Which celtic language would be the most difficult for an English speaker?
Same for Welsh--except where Irish has lenition and eclipsis, Welsh has the soft mutation, the nasal mutation, and the aspirate mutation. (Of course, in the modern spoken language, the latter two are in retreat, but the soft mutation--a.k.a. "lenition"--seems if anything to be spreading.)And because it has lenition and eclips abit everywhere, depending on your dialect.
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I can only find two cases where Nasal Mutation occurs they are fy and yn-only when it takes the meaning 'in'. Are there any more cases?linguoboy wrote:Same for Welsh--except where Irish has lenition and eclipsis, Welsh has the soft mutation, the nasal mutation, and the aspirate mutation. (Of course, in the modern spoken language, the latter two are in retreat, but the soft mutation--a.k.a. "lenition"--seems if anything to be spreading.)And because it has lenition and eclips abit everywhere, depending on your dialect.
There are a few more Aspirate mutation cases.
Soft mutation is probably over used . It is used for question forms, negative forms and has a strong conection with feminine nouns. Singular feminine nouns softly mutate after the article y, yr, 'r and singular feminine nouns cause a soft mutation to the adjectives that qualify it.
Y Ddraig goch - The Red Dragon
Y Dreigiau coch - The Red Dragons
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
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'Course. For instance:Turtlehead wrote:Do pronouns ever suffer mutations?
neu "or" neu fi "or me" neu di "or you"
ac "and" a mi "and me" a thi "and you"
Personal pronouns are in a permanent state of mutation when circumfixed to nouns, e.g. dy weld di, not *ti. (Perhaps that should be in the singular, given that ti is practically speaking the only one susceptible to mutation. But I have heard of speakers with ngweld fi, even though ngweld i is far more common. What I don't think you'll find, however, is anyone with *ngweld mi.)
There's variation, of course--i fi, imi--but about the only ones which seem to consistently resist contact mutation are those which have been mutated, i.e. the interrogatives. Consider i ble "whither?", not *i fle, since ble is already a lenited form of pa "which" + lle "place". Similarly, neu, at, i beth, not *feth (but i bwy, i pwy, etc.).
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Chi doesn't seem to get much use. Before my first trip to Wales, friends advised me to expect everyone to use ti with me. (I still started off addressing strangers with chi, though, because too much formality usually goes over better than too little.)Turtlehead wrote:Ti is familiar and also singular and chi is plural and formal.
I understand the questions, but I don?t know how to answer them, so here are the exercises:
1) Is he reading? (darllen) Ydy o?n darllen?
2) He is sleeping (cysgu[/u]) Mae o?n yn cysgu.
3) Ioan is eating (bwyta) Mae Ioan yn bwyta
4) Is Rhodri snoring? (chwyrnu) Ydy Rhodri yn chwyrnu?
5) Deiniol is teaching. (addysgu) Mae Deiniol yn addysgu.
6) Eleri is driving. (gyrru) Mae Eleri yn gyrru
7) Is Angharad listening? (gwrando) Ydy Angharad yn gwrando?
8)Is Pharazon masturbating? (godro) Ydy Pharzon yn godro?
9) Iorwerth is talking crap. (malu cachu) Mae Iorwerth yn malu cachu.
1) Is he reading? (darllen) Ydy o?n darllen?
2) He is sleeping (cysgu[/u]) Mae o?n yn cysgu.
3) Ioan is eating (bwyta) Mae Ioan yn bwyta
4) Is Rhodri snoring? (chwyrnu) Ydy Rhodri yn chwyrnu?
5) Deiniol is teaching. (addysgu) Mae Deiniol yn addysgu.
6) Eleri is driving. (gyrru) Mae Eleri yn gyrru
7) Is Angharad listening? (gwrando) Ydy Angharad yn gwrando?
8)Is Pharazon masturbating? (godro) Ydy Pharzon yn godro?
9) Iorwerth is talking crap. (malu cachu) Mae Iorwerth yn malu cachu.
[img]http://www.knotts.com/group/sales/joecool/imgs/004a1.gif[/img]
A perfect example where a comma would disambiguate, there. Well done that man.Turtlehead wrote:Bympio
Holiad ar gyfer Dewrad:
How do you address your parents with chi or ti?
I use ti with pretty much everyone except doctors, policemen, men of the cloth and politicians (not that I speak to many MPs). Of course, if there's more than one person and I'm addressing them all it's chi.
If a random stranger came up to me and started chi-ing me, I'd look at them funny but I'd probably reply in kind.
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)
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That made me laugh. I will put it in the quotes thread. Thanks for answering my question. I have been meaning to ask it for some time now. Beth am dy nain?Dewrad wrote:If a random stranger came up to me and started chi-ing me, I'd look at them funny but I'd probably reply in kind.
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
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Mae'n ddrwg 'da fi. Dylwn i bod wedi dweud, Sut wyt ti'n dweud 'look like' yng Nghymraeg? Ydy o'n 'edrych fel' neu nid?linguoboy wrote:Beth? Fel = "like, as". "Look at" = edrych ar.Turtlehead wrote:Sut wyt ti'n dweud 'look at' yng Nghymraeg? Ydy o'n 'edrych fel' neu nid?
Edrychwch ar fy ngweithiau, chi cedyrn, ac anobeithiwch!
Ti'n edrych fel i?r. Ydy honna'n da?
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
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Byddwn i'n deud "Ti'n edrych yn debyg i i?r". Byddwn i'n dehongli dy frawddeg fel "Ti'n edrych (ar bethau) fel byddai i?r yn edrych (ar bethau)."Turtlehead wrote:Mae'n ddrwg 'da fi. Dylwn i bod wedi dweud, Sut wyt ti'n dweud 'look like' yng Nghymraeg? Ydy o'n 'edrych fel' neu nid?
Ti'n edrych fel i?r. Ydy honna'n da?
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Felly, mae o'n 'yn debyg i' ac nid 'fel'. Diolch. Rydw i wedi bod meddwl amdano o i dalm nawr.linguoboy wrote:Byddwn i'n deud "Ti'n edrych yn debyg i i?r". Byddwn i'n dehongli dy frawddeg fel "Ti'n edrych (ar bethau) fel byddai i?r yn edrych (ar bethau)."Turtlehead wrote:Mae'n ddrwg 'da fi. Dylwn i bod wedi dweud, Sut wyt ti'n dweud 'look like' yng Nghymraeg? Ydy o'n 'edrych fel' neu nid?
Ti'n edrych fel i?r. Ydy honna'n da?
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
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Dyn neu beiriant? Mae'r dyn yn golchwr llestri, ond mae'r arall yn peiriant golchi llestri.Turtlehead wrote:Dylai o dweud 'dishwasher', ond dydw i ddim yn gwybod pa mor i'w ddweud o yng Nghymraeg.
Pan rw i'n edrych ar "ddysglochwr", rw i'n gweld "dysg" + "llochwr" yn hytrach na "dysgl" + "golchwr". (Os allet ti sillafu'r geiriau yn gywir, byddai hyn yn fuddiol.)
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Mae'n ddrwg 'da fi. Dylwn i fod wedi gwirio fy sillafiad i gyn postiais i'r post. Mae golchwr llestri'n ffitio fy nysgrifiad i. Bues i anghofio'r el.linguoboy wrote:Dyn neu beiriant? Mae'r dyn yn golchwr llestri, ond mae'r arall yn peiriant golchi llestri.Turtlehead wrote:Dylai o dweud 'dishwasher', ond dydw i ddim yn gwybod pa mor i'w ddweud o yng Nghymraeg.
Pan rw i'n edrych ar "ddysglochwr", rw i'n gweld "dysg" + "llochwr" yn hytrach na "dysgl" + "golchwr". (Os allet ti sillafu'r geiriau yn gywir, byddai hyn yn fuddiol.)
Beth am hwn? Cymdeithas golchwr llestri simach piws(neu gochlas).
Os ti'n ateb, os gweli di'n dda dwyt ti ddim i'n ei ddweud o yn Saesneg. Jyst dweud 'ydy' neu 'nac ydy'. Diolch.
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
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