Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

[Salmoneus]

The agricultural picture of Eigeland does fit together pretty nicely, and there's a bit more to it than just what you've gleaned from lexicons - though you have reconstructed a lot, and all of it consistent. Dewrad and I have discussed agriculture several times over the months and years, trying to keep everything consistent. Somewhere around here I've even got dietary info for the Xsali.

But I don't know what to about proto-Isles either... we never tried taking it into account before. Neither transmission nor independent domestication of these crops and animals seems a very realistic approach given the constraints you mention (among others). So in lieu of better ideas I guess my vote - for now - is to continue sweeping the problem under the carpet.

I'd be interested in seeing Sal's input on the problem, if he's around.

My input is:

a) until we work out a realistic ecology, we should use the english words in translations as exactly that - english words. Perhaps "wheat" is wheat, or perhaps it is actually sorghum, or perhaps a crop we don't have on earth. The question should be not "how can we get the earth animals into these places?" but "how can we put in these places animals that could reasonably be translated by these english words?" - whether those animals were the english animals, a rarer earth equivalent (zebu for cow, yak for ox, solitaire for chicken etc), or an entirely fictional species. In particular, what is translated 'ox' in the writing about one language could be 'cow' in that for another.

b) work out the ecology of our continent, then worry about the Isles. If the Isles terms (which do not have to map in the same way as those in other languages) do not seem realistic, then ditch them. (I don't set much store by maintaining everything that's been made just because it's there).





Re tlaliolz: I once had a sketched Andagg/Ndak parent. But I say ignore that, and work out a Tlaliolz/Ndak parent, from which I can derive, when I get around to it.

[zompist]

I forget the status of the map-making from a few months back, but I thought the Isles languages were not that far away. It's not much of a stretch to say that crops and animals are similar in the Aiwa valley and eastward to Siixtaguna.

IIRC Proto-Isles does come from a different continent. But they could well have arrived in Eigeland, and adopted words for the local flora/fauna before spreading out into the Isles family.

At least a few of the PI words don't seem to have western cognates... surely no one else has emmer wheat and bitter vetch? ... so those are good candidates for crops brought from the other continent.

With Almea, I took the position that the flora and fauna are all noticeably and sometime strikingly different from Earth's, but glosses use a reasonably similar English term. In some cases a similar gloss for two Almean crops might just indicate that they're of the same genus.

Also note that "beans" are a pretty large category, likely to exist in some form worldwide.

[Corumayas]

1. We've been using the term "Eigeland" but I've been wondering what the Akanians call it. They don't all use the same term, obviously. I figured the Fáralo might be the first to use a term for the continent. If our term is a calque of theirs, it might be Eigə-laš, though the Namɨdu reflex would be *Yogłas which gives me a serious "ew" reaction. So maybe it's something more like "The Greater Eigə [Valley]"...

How about something like Pei (Lu-)Laš "(the) big land"?

I had a thought about Ndok Aisô: since Æðadĕ is descended from the Lasomo dialect of Adāta, it might be expected to show some substrate influence from southern Ndok Aisô. Looking at the changes from Adāta to Æðadĕ might give you some extra ideas.

* The only voiced obstruent is /z/, which probably does not represent a purely voicing-based contrast with /s/ since voicing is not contrastive elsewhere. Instead the /z/ may have been rhotic-like, or differed from /s/ in precise POA, or in apicality/laminality - or any combination of these.
...
* The note from which we get "Adasi" (cognate with Ombasi) came from the Ndak era. So there is no particular reason to believe that Faralo-era Tlaliolz, from which the above wordlist comes, retained a /d/.

Maybe the former voiced stops lenited: /b/ > /w/, /d/ > /z/, /g/ > /j/. Could it be that /z/ is a non-rhotic alveolar or dental approximant (if such a thing is even possible)?

At least a few of the PI words don't seem to have western cognates... surely no one else has emmer wheat and bitter vetch? ... so those are good candidates for crops brought from the other continent.

For what it's worth, emmer is just one of the most common types of wheat in the ancient world; I imagine the Ndak would also grow emmer.

But you're right that we shouldn't get hung up on the English words, since the actual plants and animals on Akana may have somewhat different relationships. And Salmoneus is probably right that it'd be best to ignore the Proto-Isles issue for now and focus on the ecology of Eigeland. (We could always decide to take the Proto-Isles glosses as imaginative reconstruction by overenthusiastic native linguists, or something.)

Radius, Dewrad, can you remember any other details from your conversations? I'm thinking of having the Ngauro grow (in addition to the established barley and wheat) cabbages, turnips, mustard, some type of onions and/or leeks, and possibly beans (though a different kind than in the Western sphere); also fruit trees, such as apple, pear, peach, and/or plum. The core of their diet would be a few basic preparations of grain: porridge, flatbread, risen sourdough bread, and beer. Vegetables would be mostly eaten as soup. Meat would be mostly lamb or mutton, and occasionally wild waterfowl or other game; but they probably eat a lot of fish and shellfish. Does all that fit with what you have in mind?


EDIT: also, odd as it may sound, I can imagine deep-fried lemon slices being good...


EDIT again: just found this:

The Ndak themselves are agricultural, dependent on the bounty of the Aiwa and the sea. The people live largely on grains and seafood-- meat is a luxury and full of religious significance. Wild animals are largely extinct in the Aiwa valley, and devoting alluvial land to pasture is a great luxury, so sheep are few, though they may be acquired through trade. Oxen are used for plowing, while cows are valued for providing milk and dung (used for fuel and for building). Horses are not native to the region, though the western nomads have mastered them.

So I was right about grain and seafood; but maybe not about lamb and game (unless they were more common in Ngauro times). Also my inference that milk wasn't important to the Ndak appears to be wrong (though again that needn't apply to the Ngauro necessarily).

[Cedh]

1. We've been using the term "Eigeland" but I've been wondering what the Akanians call it. They don't all use the same term, obviously. I figured the Fáralo might be the first to use a term for the continent. If our term is a calque of theirs, it might be Eigə-laš, though the Namɨdu reflex would be *Yogłas which gives me a serious "ew" reaction. So maybe it's something more like "The Greater Eigə [Valley]"...

How about something like Pei (Lu-)Laš "(the) big land"?

If this is treated as a compound, rather than adjective + noun, the article might go before both components: (lu-)Peilaš. Some other possibilities:

(lu-)Jiəkulaš ("the hard-land, the solid-land")
(lu-)Bæbu(r)laš ("the strong-land")
(lu-)Goumlaš ("the high-land")
(lu-)Æčihlaš ("our land")

[Corumayas]

I just wrote this on the Akana Talk page on the wiki, and thought I'd cross-post it here:

== Style ==

I thought I'd post some suggestions about preferred style for writing articles about Akana. Some of these are fairly nitpicky things, but I think it's best to be consistent. Discussion is invited...


* Let's get the spelling of names right. That means following the orthographic conventions established for each conlang, including the use of diacritics and special characters. It also means checking to make sure we're remembering names right: I just changed a bunch of instances of ''Gouron'' to ''Gourun'', the correct Fáralo word (the error probably arose from confusion with Ndak Ta ''Gauron'').

** One issue that relates to this is the spelling of Ndak Ta words containing /ŋ/. Radius' original orthography used <ng>, but here we've been sometimes using <ŋ> (e.g. in <Ŋkana> and <Ŋauro>. I'd like to know which Radius prefers, and then use it across the board.


* Wherever possible, I'd prefer to use native adjectives for peoples and nations, rather than English-style coinages: so ''Dāiadak'' would be preferred to ''Adatan'', ''Athalēran'' to ''Athalean'', ''Fáralo'' to ''Huyfarahan'', and maybe ''Ndok'' to ''Lasomian''. I've already gone through and standardized a couple of these.


* Many places have multiple names in different languages. This leads to a couple of concerns:

** For the principal article on each topic, we have to pick a single name for the title. We've already settled on ''Lasomo'', for instance. Other places that don't have their own articles yet include the Aiwa/Eigə Valley and the Gauron/Gourun/Xōron.... Whatever name we choose for each article might also be the best name to use in general articles, such as the front page, the lists of languages, and the master timeline. (We might also think about whether it makes sense to have, say, an ''Eigə Valley'' language family if we normally refer to the region as the ''Aiwa Valley''... but that's a secondary concern.)

** In articles about a particular place, language, or culture, it makes sense to use names in that language (e.g. ''Lasomo'' in the Empire of Athalē article, but ''Lašumu'' in the Huyfárah one). When putting in links, though, don't forget that the article you want to link to may have a different name.

[zompist]

If this is treated as a compound, rather than adjective + noun, the article might go before both components: (lu-)Peilaš.

I like that.

[Radius Solis]

** One issue that relates to this is the spelling of Ndak Ta words containing /ŋ/. Radius' original orthography used <ng>, but here we've been sometimes using <331> (e.g. in <330> and <330>. I'd like to know which Radius prefers, and then use it across the board.

Spelling: I have never used eng for NT, and prefer to keep consistency with the main body of NT material by using <ng> on the wiki and everywhere else. (I know stuff like <ngkw> isn't very pretty, but it wasn't meant to be - it was meant to be an easy and functional spelling for what I thought at the time would be an unimportant language. LOL.)

[Corumayas]

Aha. Then I'll change it to Ngkana and Ngauro wherever they appear...

[Cedh]

== Style ==

I agree with most of that.

We should, however, keep geographical terms distinct from the names of political entities, ethnic groups and/or languages, even if these will often overlap. For example, while Ndok as an adjective for the Ndok-Aisô-speaking kingdoms of Ngahêxôldod and Oigop'oibauxeu makes sense, Lasomian is a better choice when referring to the region. Fáralo is good as a term for the people and their language, and it also works as an adjective for the empire of Huyfárah. But not as a geographic term, so I'd prefer to use Huyfárah(-an) for the area.

(A side note: Since the speakers of Pirikõsu had their first significant contact with civilization when the Fáralo founded a colony in their area (halfway between Kasca and the Peninsula), the natives have borrowed hıfara as a term for all civilized nations to the north, which would also include the Empire of Athalē...)

(We might also think about whether it makes sense to have, say, an ''Eigə Valley'' language family if we normally refer to the region as the ''Aiwa Valley''... but that's a secondary concern.)

I prefer Eigə Valley.

In articles about a particular place, language, or culture, it makes sense to use names in that language (e.g. ''Lasomo'' in the Empire of Athalē article, but ''Lašumu'' in the Huyfárah one). When putting in links, though, don't forget that the article you want to link to may have a different name.

We could also use the redirection feature of the wiki, which is implemented automatically if a page is renamed. I don't know though whether it is possible (and sensible) to create new pages that only redirect to another, pre-existing one.

[dunomapuka]

If this is treated as a compound, rather than adjective + noun, the article might go before both components: (lu-)Peilaš.

I like that.

Cool, let's go with that. The Namɨdu reflex will be Pyołas.

We should probably write down some terminology definitions and put them on the Akana wiki page. I'll take a start on this. We should, however, keep geographical terms distinct from the names of political entities, ethnic groups and/or languages, even if these will often overlap. For example, while Ndok as an adjective for the Ndok-Aisô-speaking kingdoms of Ngahêxôldod and Oigop'oibauxeu makes sense, Lasomian is a better choice when referring to the region. Fáralo is good as a term for the people and their language, and it also works as an adjective for the empire of Huyfárah. But not as a geographic term, so I'd prefer to use Huyfárah(-an) for the area.

I've been using "Huyfarahan" for things that refer to the Empire of Huyfárah itself, whereas "Fáralo" can refer to that cultural sphere outside of any political entity -- for example, the Namɨdu people are still "Fáralo" in a sense.

You've got it right on Ndok vs. Lasomian. Lasomian can also refer to the Daiadak kingdom of post-Ndok times. But we should use the term "Ndok" more often, where possible. Some of this will become clearer as I develop Ndok culture.

[Corumayas]

I've been using "Huyfarahan" for things that refer to the Empire of Huyfárah itself, whereas "Fáralo" can refer to that cultural sphere outside of any political entity -- for example, the Namɨdu people are still "Fáralo" in a sense.

You've got it right on Ndok vs. Lasomian. Lasomian can also refer to the Daiadak kingdom of post-Ndok times. But we should use the term "Ndok" more often, where possible. Some of this will become clearer as I develop Ndok culture.

Ok. A while ago, I changed a bunch of instances of Huyfarahan to Fáralo, mostly in the Huyfárah and timeline articles. If you want to look at them and change some back go ahead... to me it seems fine to just use Fáralo until the southern provinces secede. (The suffix -lo means "location, membership in a place", so it's already to some extent a geographical term. A native alternative form might be Huyfárahin.)

For Daiadak-ruled Lasomo, maybe we could use Lasomoran (the Adata adjectival form) instead of Lasomian?

[Radius Solis]

That sure beats Lasomian, which - partly due to dropping the final o - feels like a big fat cliche and makes it sound as though the land were called Lasomia.

[Cedh]

I've just changed a few instances of these; hope I didn't miss any.

While doing so I came across that "New Fáralo Republic" founded by some southern Fáralo cities when seceding from Huyfárah. I tried to derive a native name for that, but failed because the lexicon does not contain a term for "republic" (probably a more recent political innovation), nor for "citizen" or the like to derive "republic" from. If anyone with better Fáralo knowledge than me has a good idea, please step forward!

As a possible alternative I'd like to propose a "Free Nation of South Fáralo Cities", or lews lu-lašin æm lu-gædelu æm tæm fáralo. A good shorthand name might be "Lewfarah" ("Free Fárah").

[dunomapuka]

While doing so I came across that "New Fáralo Republic" founded by some southern Fáralo cities when seceding from Huyfárah. I tried to derive a native name for that, but failed because the lexicon does not contain a term for "republic" (probably a more recent political innovation), nor for "citizen" or the like to derive "republic" from. If anyone with better Fáralo knowledge than me has a good idea, please step forward!

As a possible alternative I'd like to propose a "Free Nation of South Fáralo Cities", or lews lu-lašin æm lu-gædelu æm tæm fáralo. A good shorthand name might be "Lewfarah" ("Free Fárah").

Yeah, I myself was just using that as a placeholder name. I like the "Free Nation of Fáralo Cities" (let's ditch the "south"; they probably figured they could get the rest to come over as long as they achieved political enlightenment). Also, writing the whole thing out in Classical Fáralo wouldn't make sense because this was the precise moment they ditched it as an official language. I don't remember if I wrote this down on the board or not. Lots of stuff is just floating around in my notes.

The Southern vernacular of this time may be something like le:s las na-zyedlu farlo, and the mature Namɨdu is les los nazyedłu forło*.

I also like Lewfarah. Or Lewsfarah, I don't see much precedent for dropping the s. Another thing I have floating around in my notes is that the "Huy" of "Huyfárah" was separated as a morpheme, such that "The Húy" (luhy:; Nam. luhɨ) was used as a term of derision for the old regime. Thus, it would make sense that they'd colloquially attach a different word to Huyfárah.

Incidentally, the two countries end up in Namɨdu as Hɨwora and Lesfora.


*I've been alternating whether to use ɫ or ł when writing Namɨdu. Both are acceptable, but I think I'll make the official one ł (stroke rather than tilde), which I've figured out the keyboard shortcut for.

[zompist]

Were there any republics in the area by the classical era? If so the Fáralo would probably borrow their name.

They had a council (moumušezə) which developed into a senate. Sorry for the length of the name, but it's Faraghin and thus pretty transparent.

If Huyfárah remains a monarchy while the south becomes a republic, perhaps there ideologically opposed terms for 'republic' develop-- e.g lewslaš ('free land') vs. mewklaš ('rebel land') or muəbazlaš ('anarchic land').

As to an earlier comment, *Huyfárahin wouldn't be acceptable in classical Fáralo-- 'Fáralo' is the adjective. Note that there were periods when Huyfárah was disunited; it was still the name of the region. If you wanted to refer to the empire or the government you could use serin 'imperial', or even 'Balaninga'.

[Radius Solis]

Zomp, what's the status of the Naidda daughter you proposed to do? If there's anything you're waiting on or particularly want to have defined for Naidda, let me know please - I'm gearing up to work on it some more. Or if you're just not in any rush or you've changed your mind about doing it, that's cool too.

[Cedh]

Were there any republics in the area by the classical era? If so the Fáralo would probably borrow their name.

The nearest we know of would probably be found in some pre-imperial Dāiadak city-states. The zāthar is definitely the closest equivalent to a democratic parliament that we have in Akana so far.

A term for "republic" is not included in the Adāta lexicon either, but the Dāiadak surely had one. Maybe a derivative of damō "city-state"...


EDIT: A few suggestions for "republican" Adāta terminology:

"republic"

hālenadu - "public affairs" (similar to the Latin rēs pūblica; from hālena "public" + -du honorific suffix)
ēn rozaran / ērózaran - "method of public discourse" (ēn "method" + roza "public discourse" + -ran adjectivizer)
zūd damōran / zūdámōran "city-state tradition" (zūd "tradition" + damō "city-state" + -ran)
lega zāthāran "law of the zāthar" (lega "law" + zāthar "public assembly" + -ran)
zūd / lega radiāran - "tradition / law of Radias" (because the zāthar of Radias possessed a veto right)

"constitution"

ālégadu - "The Laws" (ā- plural + lega + -du)

"(democratic) opposition"

ārêlibu - "the opposers" (ā- + rēli "to oppose" + -bu "-er")
rēlira - "opposition" (rēli + -ra collective suffix)
tāxora - "resistance" (tāxo "to rebel" + -ra)

"citizen"

hālenarō - "man of the public" (hālena + -rō "male person"; the female form would be hālenā)
rozarō / rozā - (similarly formed, using roza as the base)
damōrō / damōā - "man / woman of the city-state" (likewise with damō)

[zompist]

OK, I borrowed these:

alégadu - constitution
arélibu - opponent, dissident (reinterpreted as a -bu singular)
halenadu - republic
rozaru - voter (in a republic)
satar - democratic assembly

Radius, I've been busy with Xurnese, but I'm still planning to get that Naidda descendant done. What kind of changes were you planning? If you're likely to alter the lexicon, just tell me when you're done.

[Cedh]

OK, I borrowed these:

alégadu - constitution
arelibu - opponent, dissident (reinterpreted as a -bu singular)
halenadu - republic
rozaru - voter (in a republic)
satar - democratic assembly

Good choice An interesting side note is that the "lega" in ālégadu was itself originally borrowed from Fáralo. Also, ārêlibu is stressed on the (long) second syllable, so you might want to add an accent.

------------------------------

A different thing: I've been toying with a few sound changes to Æðadĕ, maybe for a language spoken in Buruya around 1500 YP:

Eida gburui ( < *Æðadĕ æx Burujĕ )
[ ˌɛɪda ɡbʉˈɾʉɪ ]
[ EIda gb}"4}I ]

Šep eun Šenkəro, seskîsoro, seskəro hlakâut, metaro ksamuntâu: inu yerâun u wobača kmisai, ui sestləro ruro yegon iyên.
[ ˌɕɛp ɛʊn ˈɕɛŋkəɾɔ | zɛsˈkiːzɔɾɔ | ˈzɛskəɾɔ ɬaˈkaʊt | ˈmeːtaɾɔ ˌksamʉnˈtaʊ ‖ ˈiːnʉ jɛˈɾaʊn ʉ ˈwɔːˌbaʨa ˈkmiːzaɪ | ʉɪ ˈzɛstɬəɾɔ rʉːɾɔ jeːɡɔn ɪˈjɛn ]
[ s\Ep EUn "s\ENk@4O | zEs"ki:zO4O | "zEsk@4O Ka"kaUt | "me:ta4O ksam}n"taU || "i:n} jE"4aUn } "wO:bats\a "kmi:zaI | }I "zEstK@4O r}:4O je:gOn I"jEn ]

A few grammatical changes are included as well, e.g. generalization of the subject marker -ro into a true ergative suffix (with concord on adjectives); development of a genitive prefix h-/k-/g- from *æx, and some minor syntax changes (approaching, but not quite reaching V2 order).

[Radius Solis]

Radius, I've been busy with Xurnese, but I'm still planning to get that Naidda descendant done. What kind of changes were you planning? If you're likely to alter the lexicon, just tell me when you're done.

Cool. I look forward to Xurnese too! The existing Naidda words will not be changing, but I may add more. (If I do I will mark which ones are recent additions.) It's the grammar that needs some gaping holes filled in - not changes to what's there, but again, additions. And I need to get a Delta sample text up.

----

In other developments: I started writing a bit, yesterday, on the Mir dynasty of Athale. And it has turned into a major history project without my really intending to start one... there's three pages of text already! So sometime soon I will put it up on the wiki and invite criticism. I still have to cover Uremas II.

[dunomapuka]

A different thing: I've been toying with a few sound changes to Æðadĕ, maybe for a language spoken in Buruya around 1500 YP:

Eida gburui ( < *Æðadĕ æx Burujĕ )
[ ˌɛɪda ɡbʉˈɾʉɪ ]
[ EIda gb}"4}I ]

Šep eun Šenkəro, seskîsoro, seskəro hlakâut, metaro ksamuntâu: inu yerâun u wobača kmisai, ui sestləro ruro yegon iyên.
[ ˌɕɛp ɛʊn ˈɕɛŋkəɾɔ | zɛsˈkiːzɔɾɔ | ˈzɛskəɾɔ ɬaˈkaʊt | ˈmeːtaɾɔ ˌksamʉnˈtaʊ ‖ ˈiːnʉ jɛˈɾaʊn ʉ ˈwɔːˌbaʨa ˈkmiːzaɪ | ʉɪ ˈzɛstɬəɾɔ rʉːɾɔ jeːɡɔn ɪˈjɛn ]
[ s\Ep EUn "s\ENk@4O | zEs"ki:zO4O | "zEsk@4O Ka"kaUt | "me:ta4O ksam}n"taU || "i:n} jE"4aUn } "wO:bats\a "kmi:zaI | }I "zEstK@4O r}:4O je:gOn I"jEn ]

A few grammatical changes are included as well, e.g. generalization of the subject marker -ro into a true ergative suffix (with concord on adjectives); development of a genitive prefix h-/k-/g- from *æx, and some minor syntax changes (approaching, but not quite reaching V2 order).

Nice work. How do the speakers end up in Buruya? Invasion by Lasomo, or are they a scion of my wandering Daiadak barbarians?

One thing about Buruya's later history is its linguistic complexity. Until the Fáralo takeover they speak a dialect somwhere in between Naidda and Ndok Aisô. I might draw up some sound changes for that, just for the purpose of having words lying around to borrow (one I thought of was NT <i>ntâug</i> --> Buruya <i>nto</i>, which shows up in Namɨdu as <b>anto</b>).

After that, they all speak Fáralo, but the substratum influence from the old dialect is large. Some words inevitably get disseminated into the wider Fáralo sphere, which is justification enough for why a few words end up in Namɨdu.

Then, a barbarian group (who, someone suggested, might be the Qedik), sacks the city. Now, this might mean they leave a few words behind, or it might mean they just sack and move on, and disappear into the forest (the Romance Languages, say, have not inherited any words from Hunnic).

And then evidently the Daiadak move in at some point.

[Cedh]

How do the speakers end up in Buruya? Invasion by Lasomo, or are they a scion of my wandering Daiadak barbarians?

I haven't yet thought it through, but after 489 Athalē is supposed to extend its territory down the Eigə, and Huyfárah loses Buruya during this period. I think it's likely Buruya becomes at least a vassal state of Athalē for some time, if not a province. Also, being a major trading crossroads the city will have a significant Adāta/Æðadĕ-speaking minority, which might well become the ruling class at some point if they can secure an economic monopoly for themselves. Their dialect may even become a separate language if it is never spoken by a majority of Buruyans. And then of course there's the possibility that an emergent post-Athalē Lasomo conquers Buruya around the turn of the milennium. But these are all just vague ideas for now.

As for the wandering Dāiadak, I'm still not sure whether I really like this idea. In any case I believe they're much more likely to establish themselves in Buruya (which is adjacent to their own cultural sphere, although an organized military campaign or an economic takeover along the lines I sketched out above are much more prone to succeed) or in a small town in the southern Tal (which may then grow and become an important place after the dark ages) than they are to reach and take over Barnago. I'd envision Barnago emerging as a separate Fáralo kingdom instead.

One thing about Buruya's later history is its linguistic complexity. Until the Fáralo takeover they speak a dialect somwhere in between Naidda and Ndok Aisô. I might draw up some sound changes for that, just for the purpose of having words lying around to borrow (one I thought of was NT <i>ntâug</i> --> Buruya <i>nto</i>, which shows up in Namɨdu as <b>anto</b>).

After that, they all speak Fáralo, but the substratum influence from the old dialect is large. Some words inevitably get disseminated into the wider Fáralo sphere, which is justification enough for why a few words end up in Namɨdu.

I was also thinking we could use such a Buruya-based NT daughter, even if it doesn't survive past the Fáralo expansion. Go ahead!

[Radius Solis]

Oh, another item of possible interest for republics and/or councils, which I'd forgotten about earlier. If anyone wants to borrow it, Naidda has a word for "vote", resti (in the sense of "let's hold a resti" - it doesn't also refer to an individual's choice). Naidda picked up this word from the tribally organized Miw.

[Corumayas]

I just finished Guns, Germs, and Steel, and I'm naturally interested in trying to apply some of Diamond's insights to Akana.

It seems even more important, now, that we have a rough outline of the development of agriculture... at a minimum, it would good to assign approximate dates and places for the domestications of the most important crops and animals, and have a rough sketch of their spread. (Obviously this depends heavily on climate and the locations of geographical barriers vs. communication routes.) Practically everything else follows from this, according to Diamond.

Then we can do the same for important technological developments. And then we can use those things to help explain historical developments (including issues like the following).


Somewhat unrelated to the above, it seems like the classical empires are surprisingly small. Compared to Rome or China, their east-west extents are quite modest. It seems particularly inexplicable that it's so hard to unite the Aiwa valley, since there don't seem to be any significant geographical barriers.

(Ok, the main reason for the division is that Huyfárah and Athalē are so evenly matched. Eventually Athalē does get the upper hand, but it takes a long, long time.... Maybe boy#12's sense that Huyfárah should decline earlier is right...?)

[Radius Solis]

It seems we've had a lot of information ported over to the wiki from this in the last few days, much of it by Cedh. It's good to see!

My own contribution is the previously promised new article detailing the dynastic life of the Athaleran House of Mir. Lots of new stuff there. Comments, criticism, and edits welcome.