Conlang Diachronics Relay II (now with schedule!)

Amuere · Post by **Amuere** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:08 am

I don't have a preference for any of the protolangs all are cool with me, but I'd like to be in one of the later rounds.

Qwynegold · Post by **Qwynegold** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:23 pm

Basilius wrote:
cedh audmanh wrote:We have more than twenty people signed in already! Five of them want to work with Western, and three with Peninsular. I think we should use both language families then. Anyone specifically interested in going first round?
It's a pity that few people voted for Proto-Núalís-Takuña. It seems to present some challenging options, as a protolanguage...

Is it possible to have a third family in the relay?

If it is, I would like to join Qwynegold, but unlike Qwynegold I can start right now.

Are there any other people willing to join the PNT Party? Tzirtzi, are you going to participate in the relay?

Yay, if you'd be willing to do all the grammars I could probably start working anytime. If Proto-Núalís-Takuña is not gonna be in the game, then I'd want to work with Peninsular.

Yng · Post by **Yng** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:33 pm

I'd happily go with any family, including PNT.

dhok · Post by **dhok** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:53 pm

Since I'm doing the reconstruction game, I'm dropping out of this.

Tiamat · Post by **Tiamat** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:59 pm

When are we going to start?

Radius Solis · Post by **Radius Solis** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:38 pm

We have started - Drydic and WeepingElf got the go-ahead several days ago. Actually we haven't heard back from Elf yet (are you there?) so I'm not sure he's already begun, but I'll drop him a note if he hasn't checked in by tomorrow.

But it's true we do still need to work out and post the rest of the lineup. I think cedh hasn't been around much the last couple days, which is why we haven't yet (it's not a hurry) but if needed I can just do it myself.

Tiamat · Post by **Tiamat** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:48 pm

So are we going to just use Proto-Western?

Radius Solis · Post by **Radius Solis** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:40 pm

Looks like there's a substantial number of people who'd prefer Peninsular. So no, everyone can (and should) pick which of the two families they would like to work in.

Ulan · Post by **Ulan** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:58 pm

I'll sign up for this -- onto the Peninsular team, I guess.

WeepingElf · Post by **WeepingElf** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:37 am

Radius Solis wrote:We have started - Drydic and WeepingElf got the go-ahead several days ago. Actually we haven't heard back from Elf yet (are you there?) so I'm not sure he's already begun, but I'll drop him a note if he hasn't checked in by tomorrow.

But it's true we do still need to work out and post the rest of the lineup. I think cedh hasn't been around much the last couple days, which is why we haven't yet (it's not a hurry) but if needed I can just do it myself.

I am already working on it. I am waiting for a clarification on how the classifiers are used from Dewrad (the grammar sketch says they are important, but doesn't explain how they are used, and the examples don't show either; and we know how helpful Dewrad is usually

), but the sound changes are aleady beginning to take shape.

PeteTheMadScientist · Post by **PeteTheMadScientist** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:14 am

I'd like to go about the fourth generation. As to which branch, is it OK if I just have a look around when it's my turn and see what looks promising?

Basilius · Post by **Basilius** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:24 am

Qwynegold wrote:Yay, if you'd be willing to do all the grammars I could probably start working anytime.

Yes, right now I'm thinking of grammars. Moreover, I'm trying to drive in through the syntactic gate :)

It is not clear if PNT is going to be approved as the third protolang in the relay, but I think nobody will object to us just experimenting in this area; whether or not it's part of the relay game - can be decided on later, seeing how it goes...

Which also makes me think... it doesn't seem to be the usual practice with conlanging relays, but what if we discuss our PNT business openly, e. g. start a thread on the Akana Forum? For the purposes of documenting things, and to make it easier for other people to join us?

As for the sound changes: there'll be some challenging tasks. To arrive at a neat morphosyntax, we'll need sound changes that make some sound sequences much more compact while not increasing overall homonymy too much.

Qwynegold, do you have any experience with sound change appliers? Geoff's SCA, in particular? It would be nice to work with GSCA rules files from the very start. (No problem if not, though.)

And Tzirtzi, I have a few questions to you, quite expectably I guess :) There are points where I'm not sure I understand how PNT works, and besides, a couple concerning the culture and geography...

TzirTzi · Post by **TzirTzi** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:51 am

I'm quite happy to answer questions here/by PM/by email/on the akana forum/on the akana wiki

*hopes that the existence of questions reflects badly explained rather than badly expanded areas of PNT*

Basilius · Post by **Basilius** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:03 pm

So, I started the thread in the Akana Forum. People interested in the PNT part of the relay, you are welcome :)

TzirTzi wrote:*hopes that the existence of questions reflects badly explained rather than badly expanded areas of PNT* :P

No, nothing worth the word "badly" at all, just the usual blanks one would expect with a brief description and a language *that* weird :)

ave matthew · Post by **ave matthew** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:02 pm

Hi again,
So having acctually found the time to read the whole thread, I would like to join the PNT team, so I'll go ahead and read that part of Akana now, or at least as much as I can

Amuere · Post by **Amuere** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:43 pm

Ok, so it's decided we're using PNT as the protolang, right?

Cedh · Post by **Cedh** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:44 pm

Okay, first of all, sorry for my absence in the last few days. RL intervening. And thank you for managing this in the meantime, Radius!

We have 27 participants at the moment, which is definitely enough for two language families. However, I don't see the numbers for three families currently, especially if we want to have broad trees. I hope that more people will sign in eventually, but until then I think we should restrict the relay to Western and Peninsular.

Of course anyone is welcome to create a daughter of Proto-Núalís-Takuña outside of the relay framework.
@Basilius: I really like the ideas you've been posting at the other forum!
@ave matthew: If you would like to do something besides a PNT language, please let me know.

So, green light for roninbodhisattva and Vortex to start working from Proto-Peninsular! Goal date for you: Sunday October 25th.

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This is how we'll organize handing on the torch:

At the beginning of each turn, the participants of the next round take a look and decide on the language they want to work from. The decision will be made in discussion in this thread. Eligible languages are those created in the previous turn as well as those from one generation earlier, including languages that were created before this relay (i.e. Proto-Coastal-Western). For instance, the people of Team A Group II will be able to choose between Proto-Western, Proto-Coastal-Western, and the two languages to be created by Drydic Guy and WeepingElf.

Exceptions: (a) If it has been decided that more descendants of a particular language would be unrealistic, or (b) if all participants of a non-initial round choose the same language, then alternatives will have to be found.

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Recommendations for doing your turn:

You can choose the time depth of your language yourself. A good amount would be 800-1500 years, just enough so that it becomes a different language but keep a strong familiarity (see Latin to Romance).
Feel free to work out a little con-history to go with your languages if you choose to, or invent substrate-language word lists to borrow words from if you like. Neither of these is required. If you do want to, it might be best to discuss it with the Akana team a little - here, on the AkanaForum, or on [url=irc://irc.sorcery.net/akana]IRC[/url] - to make sure everything fits together well. You can of course also borrow words from each other, provided your languages are roughly contemporary.
You can post the description of your language at the AkanaWiki or at another place on the internet, as you prefer.
If you want, you're encouraged to use the AkanaForum to create a work-in-progress thread about your relay project to discuss sound changes, grammar issues, historical setting etc.
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. Questions regarding game organization are best directed at me or Radius. Questions specific to the protolanguages may be directed at the creators themselves - Dewrad for PW, Zhen Lin for PPI, and TzirTzi for PNT/PCW. Questions regarding the setting can probably be answered by most of the main Akana participants, i.e. the aforementioned plus Legion, Corumayas, and boy #12.

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Here are the provisional relay groups and their goal dates. If anyone doesn't like the time or language family I've placed him/her in, please tell me.

Team A: Western

Round I (October 16th)
Drydic Guy (from Proto-Western)
WeepingElf (from Proto-Western)

Round II (November 1st)
Curlyjimsam
eodrakken
ingolemo
Nortaneous

Round III (November 16th)
Abi
Arzena
kohorik
Tarasoriku
Trailsend

Round IV (December 1st)
PeteTheMadScientist
...

Team B: Peninsular

Round I (October 25th)
nebula wind phone (from Proto-Peninsular)
Vortex (from Proto-Peninsular)

Round II (November 9th)
faiuwle
krinnen
roninbodhisattva ? (maybe later)
ulan

Round III (November 23rd)
4pq1injbok
Amuere
Cadeshadow
Jojo
YngNghymru

Round IV (December 7th)
Drydic Guy
thedukeofnuke
...

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Of course, more participants are welcome - if you're interested, please sign up!

The rules and schedule will be mirrored in the first post as well as on the AkanaForum, and all major updates will also be posted in those places. I will not update this post though, two copies of the schedule should be enough.

4pq1injbok · Post by **4pq1injbok** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:20 pm

Cool. Peninsular's fine by me, I was leaning towards it anyhow.

Zhen Lin (or others): how canonical are the "selected cognate sets" in the Proto-Peninsular History and context section? If I read things right there're no daughters described right now, so I'd guess some of these forms represent changes meant to explain some loanwords into other languages: if so, what's the data?

EDIT: ...oh, that's a III, not a II, I guess it's not quite so directly relevant to me as I thought. Still.

Zhen Lin · Post by **Zhen Lin** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:10 am

Lotoka is semi-canonical, depending on whether or not the language(s) borrowing from Lotoka remain canonical. The table will most likely be retconned when there are real daughters, but do feel free to make languages which fit the table.

On a different note, how is AhH coming? I liked it.

Amuere · Post by **Amuere** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:28 am

Sweet! Third round, I'm gonna start studying up on Peninsular so I'll be ready upon my turn.

Qwynegold · Post by **Qwynegold** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:22 am

So we're not officially in this relay? Then does that mean that we don't have that much time pressure on us? Because suddenly stuff has started to happen IRL, so I don't know how intensely I'm gonna able to work with this.

Basilius wrote:Qwynegold, do you have any experience with sound change appliers? Geoff's SCA, in particular? It would be nice to work with GSCA rules files from the very start. (No problem if not, though.)

I have used this sound change applier: http://users.cwnet.com/millenia/SoundCh ... merian.htm. I'd rather not use Geoff's SCA because then I'd have to install some other crap, and I've had bad experiences with that. Is Geoff's SCA similar to the one I linked to? Because in that case it would be easy to convert between the two programs if you want to use Geoff's.

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:08 am

Cool - so, being in the second round, I get a choice between PPI, and roninbodhisattva's and Vortex's langs?

Cedh · Post by **Cedh** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:26 am

faiuwle wrote:Cool - so, being in the second round, I get a choice between PPI, and roninbodhisattva's and Vortex's langs?

Yes, exactly.

ave matthew · Post by **ave matthew** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:58 am

Okay, so since there are only two languages getting used, I will throw myself onto the Peninsular team, but state that should there be enough force behind PNT, I will be rejoining that team instead (which will leave a nice little gap).

eodrakken · Post by **eodrakken** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:31 pm

I'm trying to get a sense of the Proto-Western region and history. For the maps on the wiki, which color represents Proto-Coastal-Western? And are there names or any information for the other branches?

The dark purple region is a huge expansion. Does it represent a group that domesticated the horse and went nomadic? I couldn't find a geographical map of the region to say whether that's an open plain/steppe or not.

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Conlang Diachronics Relay II (now with schedule!)

The Relay Plan