LCK Book

So Haleza Grise · Post by **So Haleza Grise** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:00 am

My copy arrived over the Easter break. It shipped on 20 March, so that's pretty good.

It may just reflect how much mundane proofing I've been doing at work lately, but the only typos that glared at me were the occasional doubled full stops.

Jar Jar Binks · Post by **Jar Jar Binks** » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:34 am

I like how Zomp replied to Eodrakken but completely ignored Whimemsz who actually had something useful to say.

Tsk tsk.

Jar Jar Binks · Post by **Jar Jar Binks** » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:37 am

but of course

zompist wrote:only an enemy will read through an entire book, for free, finding every error and questionable statement

Jar Jar Binks · Post by **Jar Jar Binks** » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:44 am

zompist wrote:

because recycled jokes from the tezcat days are funny

Post by **zompist** » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:43 pm

Someone's in a cranky mood. Mortified as I am by errors, I am happy to know about them so I can correct them.

dhok · Post by **dhok** » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:52 pm

I just got it. Rock 'n' roll.

I'd just like to note that www.zompist.com/books.html doesn't exist, and also that there were some font problems in the Verdurian-alphabet version of the Kebreni text.

Circeus · Post by **Circeus** » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:51 pm

While many of my concerns have been expressed, I have three primary pieces of criticism to make of the book:

Typography
Basically, I wish more effort had been put into ensuring that diacriticized character aren't almost systematically put into a different font. Given that the book generally feels fairly professional, I find this to be exceedingly jarring.
The Pragmatics chapter
This is information that is typically little discussed in either general linguistics book or conlanging context, and truly fascinating material. I was however disappointed in how little it was given "application hints". All other chapters are interspersed with notes about how different languages do things, but as far as this chapter went, it only came useful for politeness levels and a few other miscellanea (pp. 145-150). There's brief mention of using turn-taking, but how to APPLY that knowledge in practice (compared to discussions of phonology or semantics) is, is my opinion, sorly lacking.
The Kebreni phonology
This is a very small issue, and likely you'll say it's just me, but it is IMO magnified in the book: there is absolutely NO obviousness to the newcomer (even more so the that don,t have English as their native language) that t with dot represents the interdental fricative. No less because that sound IS NOT in either of the previous sound charts (pp. 17, 33). Heck, I'm reasonably experienced and I had to go look at the pre-Unicode online grammar to understand it.

Aszev · Post by **Aszev** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:15 pm

Just came back from my ~vacation, so I can now inform ze board that a copy has safely arrived in the Old World.

Catscratch · Post by **Catscratch** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:42 pm

On page 188, you have the Old English verb cēozan. Shouldn't it be cēosan?

Ran · Post by **Ran** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:00 pm

My copy is now sitting at the post office waiting for me to pick it up! =D

Trajan · Post by **Trajan** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:40 pm

My copy arrived on Monday and I started reading it straight away. I had real problems with the "Sounds" section, until I realised that Zompist was assuming that English-speaking reades have an American accent.

Apart from that, though, I love it!

Ran · Post by **Ran** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:24 pm

just a quick note: on page 45 the first tone mā is marked as the fourth tone mà.

edit:

also on page 72 you give nèi tiáo niú for "that cow". I've always said nèi tóu niú and I'm not sure if tiáo is right.

edit again:

on page 74, I am pretty sure that the "le" in "wo chi fan le" is not the perfective aspect marker but is instead the state change marker. The perfective aspect marker should come immediately after the verb, i.e. "chi le fan". Though "wo chi le fan" is not really a complete sentence either. i forgot the reason why though, it's explained in Yip & Rimmington's grammar. also, "mingtian wo chi fan le" sounds vaguely ungrammatical as the state change has not really occurred yet.

i know you're trying to show that aspect is not the same as tense, and a perfective can be relative to the present, past or future. i can't think of a good pair of sentences to illustrate this though. the best i can think of is:

ta1 zuo2tian1 chi1guo4 fan4 jiu4 zou3 le.
"he left after eating yesterday"
ta1 ming2tian1 chi1guo4 fan4 jiu4 zou3.
"he will leave after eating tomorrow"

I can't get rid of the "le" (and I don't really know why). but I'll keep thinking about this. I also vaguely remember a pair of sentences like this in Yip & Rimmginton's grammar.

edit again:

on page 110, jiāng doesn't mean any large river, it refers to a bizarrely arbitrary group of rivers in southern China and Manchuria (the Yangtze, the Pearl, the Salween, the Amur, the Yalu, the Tumen, their tributaries and a bunch of other rivers nearby). All other rivers, no matter how large, are hé. Hé is also the generic term for rivers in general. So the Nile, the Amazon, the Mississippi, the Volga, the Ganges etc. are hé, not jiāng.

I realize this makes the example unwieldy, so here's an easier one:

Old Chinese (whatever hé was in Old Chinese) "Yellow River" -> Mandarin hé "river"
[edit. um. I haven't been able to find a good reconstruction of Old Chinese using Google alone. maybe another example would be better?]

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:04 pm

Page 42:

There's a strong tendency for front vowels to be unrounded and back vowels to be unrounded, as in English, Spanish, or Italian

Also, LOL at

People sometimes post phonetic inventories on my board and anxiously await comments. This mystifies me... it's a bit like a painter showing you which colors he intends to use.

That should seriously be stickied somewhere.

Rodlox · Post by **Rodlox** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:33 pm

.

my copy just arrived right now today.

thank you!

finlay · Post by **finlay** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:27 pm

Just saw the book advertised on some random website. (firstpersonobserver.com)

I had a wee chuckle to myself.

ccaccus · Post by **ccaccus** » Sun May 30, 2010 7:06 pm

A long overdue return for me, I must say. Hopefully my recent book order will make me a regular once more.

Torco · Post by **Torco** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:36 am

Amazon won't take my paypal... damn internet money drama... maybe I should get a bank account.
¬___¬

makvas · Post by **makvas** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:46 am

Very nice. It looks like (from the preview on Amazon) that the book was made using LaTeX or some other TeX variety. Would I be correct?

Rodlox · Post by **Rodlox** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:45 am

I'm enjoying my copy a great deal...making sure I understand Pragmatics right now.

again, thank you, Zompist for creating the Guide and the Book.

alice · Post by **alice** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:58 am

Mine arrived today, but as I'm at work I won't be able to read it until later.

hwhatting · Post by **hwhatting** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:44 am

I put it on my amazon wish list (it is available on amazon.de, for 13.99 Euros). As I won't be in Germany for months, there is no sense in ordering now.

Viktor77 · Post by **Viktor77** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:32 am

Torco wrote:Amazon won't take my paypal... damn internet money drama... maybe I should get a bank account.
¬___¬

Amazon never accepted PayPal which is a bad business move IMHO and has caused me frustration more times than you could know.

Jacqui · Post by **Jacqui** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:10 pm

WOHOOOOO

I MAY BE LATE BUT ITS ON .CO.UK

WOOOOOOO

£9.89!! £.989!!
now... to get my mum to buy it....

Or:

Will it be in stores in Europe?

alice · Post by **alice** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:50 pm

I've now read it (well, most of it), and I'm wondering why /s/ and /z/ aren't part of the Standard Fantasy Inventory

But seriously, it's an awesome book, even if it continually reminds me that every one of my conlangs is shit and needs much more work. Maybe it's a subtle hint that my work is done and it's time for me to shuffle off this mortal coil?

Viktor77 · Post by **Viktor77** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:40 pm

Has anyone proposed an ebook version of the LCK? I'd love a version for my iBook app or Kindle app.